North rotation

[Anonymous]

How does one do a North rotation in Civil 3D?
What if your drawing has points?

[Anonymous]

what do you mean by north rotation? do you mean moving things so that they
match north as "up" (y axis) or looking at your drawing so that north (y
axis) has a different twist so that you can work easier? give me a little
context.

--
Dana Breig Probert
http://civil3drocks.blogspot.com/
CADapult Ltd
Empowering Design With Innovative Solutions
www.cadapult.net
----------------------------------------------
"Joe McManemin" wrote in message
news:5260257@discussion.autodesk.com...
How does one do a North rotation in Civil 3D?
What if your drawing has points?

[Anonymous]

Joe:

Take off your LDD cap. Civil 3D is different. You will normally work in
either Model space with North straight up or work through Paper Space with
your drawing skewed to "your choice direction." North is UP in Civil 3D
model space. ( or you can work in DWtwist in MS)



Bill

"Joe McManemin" wrote in message
news:5260257@discussion.autodesk.com...
How does one do a North rotation in Civil 3D?
What if your drawing has points?

[joshlund]

Joe,

North Rotation, as found in Land Desktop, does not exist in Civil 3D. There are a few options for accomplishing the same tasks but the most common I've found is to use Dview with the Twist option. You may also look at UCS usage depending on your situation but personally, I use DVIEW twist.

My reply is bound to bring out both sides of the North Rotation debate. This issue has been discussed at great lengths in the past. Search the group for "North Rotation" to see the other options discussed.

HTH,
Josh

[Anonymous]

I may not understand North Rotation in the same context, but there are times
when we need to adjust our bearing calculations without modifying the
coordinate system. This becomes necessary when bearings of lines need to
match a recorded document. Thus when a line has a bearing of true north as
calculated by project coordinates, the bearing of that line needs to be
rotated x.x degrees to match the recorded document. Rather than rotating the
entire project coordinate system to suit the document, a rotation is applied
mathematically to the calculated bearings.

I hope Autodesk recognizes this need and incoporates it into C3D.


"Joe McManemin" wrote in message
news:5260257@discussion.autodesk.com...
How does one do a North rotation in Civil 3D?
What if your drawing has points?

[Anonymous]

So if I'm given a boundary survey by a client and North is "straight up" but
the actual bearings are in a different coordinate system, I have to apply a
correction factor to any parcel lines I create? Also any line from a point
to another point will have an erroneous bearing?

"Joe McManemin" wrote in message
news:5260257@discussion.autodesk.com...
How does one do a North rotation in Civil 3D?
What if your drawing has points?

[Anonymous]

I thought DW Twist only rotated the view. Wouldn't I still have to adjust
bearings?
"wfb" wrote in message
news:5260237@discussion.autodesk.com...
Joe:

Take off your LDD cap. Civil 3D is different. You will normally work in
either Model space with North straight up or work through Paper Space with
your drawing skewed to "your choice direction." North is UP in Civil 3D
model space. ( or you can work in DWtwist in MS)



Bill

"Joe McManemin" wrote in message
news:5260257@discussion.autodesk.com...
How does one do a North rotation in Civil 3D?
What if your drawing has points?

[reed.stephens]

This is one of the issues that has prevented me from implementing parcels.
The one thing you do NOT want to do is rotate you coordinate system to match these old bearings unless you are going to accept the old bearing system for your project. The best advice I have been given to date for labeling the old bearings is to make a copy of the boundary and modify those courses to match the existing calls. This method still produces results that are not ideal when there is a significant difference in the two systems. I have not used 2007 as yet so I don't know if there is a way to override the label value, but if it has not yet been provided it would sure be a good wish list item.

[Anonymous]

What happens when the parcels or lots need to be changed? Once you have made
a copy for your plat, any changes would need to be kept synchronized and
thus there is the potential for something to be missed. This is not a
practical solution to the problem.

wrote in message news:5260744@discussion.autodesk.com...
This is one of the issues that has prevented me from implementing parcels.
The one thing you do NOT want to do is rotate you coordinate system to match
these old bearings unless you are going to accept the old bearing system for
your project. The best advice I have been given to date for labeling the
old bearings is to make a copy of the boundary and modify those courses to
match the existing calls. This method still produces results that are not
ideal when there is a significant difference in the two systems. I have not
used 2007 as yet so I don't know if there is a way to override the label
value, but if it has not yet been provided it would sure be a good wish list
item.

[mmccall]

Why not put the old boundary in it's own drawing file, label it there, xref it in and align the xref to your project?

[Anonymous]

This is a workable solution, but not ideal. This approach places the plat in
it's own coordinate system. The challenge arises when the site development
calls for adjustments to the plat (such as delineating easements and such).
Normally the engineering department would delineate the easements and send
them over to survey for the plat.Since the 2 projects are on different
coordinate systems there would need to be some safeguards in place.

Another problem arises when the plat needs to be referenced into several
drawings. The alignment parameters would need to be appplied in each
document that references it. During a project that can be dealt with but
later in time if the documents need to be used again it can be problematic
when the coordinate systems do not match.

A north rotation tool would again be more desireable.

wrote in message news:5260798@discussion.autodesk.com...
Why not put the old boundary in it's own drawing file, label it there, xref
it in and align the xref to your project?

[Anonymous]

You find a reference point that you rotate around, and an angle of rotation,
and do a simple AutoCAD rotate. Unlike in LDD, where you had to do special
things to points, in C3D, you can treat them as AutoCAD-ish entities, and
use regular rotate command. C3D will pick up the fact that they've been
moved and or rotated, along with the linework...

So, in essence, you don't rotate the north, you rotate the points and
linework till they read the bearings and distances that they need to read on
a coordinate system.

Then, to orient the north on a plotted sheet or in a view to a different
(visual, rather then coordinate direction) from straight up to a better fit
fir the sheet and the project, you would use dview twist. You probably
already know Dview Twist has no effect on coordinate system.

If the two cases above don't answer your question, I'm not sure I'm
completely understanding your question. I might be able to give you little
better feedback if you give us some more detail about what you're trying to
do.

"Joe McManemin" wrote in message
news:5260688@discussion.autodesk.com...
I thought DW Twist only rotated the view. Wouldn't I still have to adjust
bearings?
"wfb" wrote in message
news:5260237@discussion.autodesk.com...
Joe:

Take off your LDD cap. Civil 3D is different. You will normally work in
either Model space with North straight up or work through Paper Space with
your drawing skewed to "your choice direction." North is UP in Civil 3D
model space. ( or you can work in DWtwist in MS)



Bill

"Joe McManemin" wrote in message
news:5260257@discussion.autodesk.com...
How does one do a North rotation in Civil 3D?
What if your drawing has points?

[Anonymous]

If North is straight up, then a vertical line is N 0(d) 00 (m) 00 (secs) E.
I am not following your statement about actual bearings? Could you please
re-state your problem? I don't think there is a problem. Actual bearings
can and do apply. Are you rotating from Old bearings to New bearings?
North Rotation in these newsgroups usually means rotating your plan to allow
a better layout for plotting. I.e., you rotate drawing and re-set your
North arrow to represent this. Apparently you are doing something
different.

Bill

"Joe McManemin" wrote in message
news:5260722@discussion.autodesk.com...
So if I'm given a boundary survey by a client and North is "straight up" but
the actual bearings are in a different coordinate system, I have to apply a
correction factor to any parcel lines I create? Also any line from a point
to another point will have an erroneous bearing?

"Joe McManemin" wrote in message
news:5260257@discussion.autodesk.com...
How does one do a North rotation in Civil 3D?
What if your drawing has points?

[Anonymous]

What I do when I analyze the boundary and have a map laid out on a different
basis of bearings, I tend to put the linework in a block, or better yet a
group. Then I leave one copy of that group intact, off to the side of the
drawing with a note below it "record xxx-xxx basis of bearings" and use a
copy to rotate and do what I need to while I do the boundary analysis.
Eventually, you bring all of your record data on the common basis of
bearings for the current project. You can have a set of reference drawings
with the reference maps on their original basis of bearings too. I tend to
keep a drawing with 'original record maps' in it.
Big disclaimer to all this: it's been almost a year since I've last analyzed
a boundary, and it was LDDT 06 I last did it in, I didn't get a chance to do
it in C3D, so I may be way off here... If I am, don't mind me rambling here
;)

--
Connie Barrett
Director of Data Visualizations
Pacific Soils Engineering
"neilw" wrote in message
news:5260635@discussion.autodesk.com...
I may not understand North Rotation in the same context, but there are times
when we need to adjust our bearing calculations without modifying the
coordinate system. This becomes necessary when bearings of lines need to
match a recorded document. Thus when a line has a bearing of true north as
calculated by project coordinates, the bearing of that line needs to be
rotated x.x degrees to match the recorded document. Rather than rotating the
entire project coordinate system to suit the document, a rotation is applied
mathematically to the calculated bearings.

I hope Autodesk recognizes this need and incoporates it into C3D.


"Joe McManemin" wrote in message
news:5260257@discussion.autodesk.com...
How does one do a North rotation in Civil 3D?
What if your drawing has points?

[reed.stephens]

The problem I have is the requirement locally to have all new plats referenced to the state plane coordinate system. This becomes a problem when working adjacent to previously platted land that used older methods of basis of bearing. In our case, the difference can be 3 or more degrees and in many cases lines are even in different quadrants. e are also required to show these previously platted bearings on our new plats resulting in double calls for most if not all courses. The trick is finding a way to get Civil 3D to label all of this.
I do try to keep the boundary and existing easements in a separate drawing that is x-referenced into the model, but I still have not found a way to get both boundaries labeled with Civil 3D that looks like a final plat ready for recording.

[bklem]

I'm new to 2008 and I'm having a tough time of it. I get the fact that 2008 has North UP in all cases and I'll deal with that but I'm coming from the survey end of this and don't understand this program well. In 2004, drawing north was adjusted to fit our paper the best. We are converting over now but many of our drawings are still 2004. When these drawings are used as base maps for design, they no longer carry over the same bearing system in 2008. How can I change the orientation in 2008 to match what has been done already? Do we have to rotate each drawing as soon as it is created in 2008 to match our "old" bearing system? We currently do a "save as" and change the name but in 2008 then, north is "up". This is a big issue for us and I could really use some advice.

[Anonymous]

I would say that you probably need to rotate all the LDD drawings back to
North Up or: Designate where North is (Like the North Arrow) and rotate
XREF's to UP upon insertion. I do not quite understand your meaning of old
"bearing system".
Just my opinion. Let the fireworks begin.

Bill

wrote in message news:5836938@discussion.autodesk.com...
I'm new to 2008 and I'm having a tough time of it. I get the fact that 2008
has North UP in all cases and I'll deal with that but I'm coming from the
survey end of this and don't understand this program well. In 2004, drawing
north was adjusted to fit our paper the best. We are converting over now
but many of our drawings are still 2004. When these drawings are used as
base maps for design, they no longer carry over the same bearing system in
2008. How can I change the orientation in 2008 to match what has been done
already? Do we have to rotate each drawing as soon as it is created in 2008
to match our "old" bearing system? We currently do a "save as" and change
the name but in 2008 then, north is "up". This is a big issue for us and I
could really use some advice.

[Sinc]

That's something that hasn't affected us, because we made it a rule that we would only use BPNR in the annotation drawings. The drawings containing base linework were ALWAYS left in WCS with no BPNR, and then XREF'd into annotation drawings. The annotation drawings are where we did the BPNR and placed all the text.

[Anonymous]

I think the OP is worried about old LDT line lables - they probably defined
a BPNR with an arbitrary Bearing system

--
Joe

Joseph D. Bouza, P.E.
Civil 3D 2006
LDT 2006
Win XP pro
v 2002, sp 2
hp workstation xw4100
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"wfb" wrote in message
news:5837086@discussion.autodesk.com...
I would say that you probably need to rotate all the LDD drawings back to
North Up or: Designate where North is (Like the North Arrow) and rotate
XREF's to UP upon insertion. I do not quite understand your meaning of old
"bearing system".
Just my opinion. Let the fireworks begin.

Bill

wrote in message news:5836938@discussion.autodesk.com...
I'm new to 2008 and I'm having a tough time of it. I get the fact that 2008
has North UP in all cases and I'll deal with that but I'm coming from the
survey end of this and don't understand this program well. In 2004, drawing
north was adjusted to fit our paper the best. We are converting over now
but many of our drawings are still 2004. When these drawings are used as
base maps for design, they no longer carry over the same bearing system in
2008. How can I change the orientation in 2008 to match what has been done
already? Do we have to rotate each drawing as soon as it is created in 2008
to match our "old" bearing system? We currently do a "save as" and change
the name but in 2008 then, north is "up". This is a big issue for us and I
could really use some advice.

[bklem]

When we've started new drawings, the object is to get the topo to our engineers as quick as we can so they can begin design. We only use "assumed" bearings at the start of a job. Our drawing is set up from the beginning to fit a sheet in model space. We will then go back and tie our job into USGS coordinates. We would then change the north of the drawing to relate to our monument tie-in. When these drawings are then converted to c3d, that orientation is being lost. I just found this out when I started using a design drawing done by our engineering staff. Until everything is being done in c3d, is there a way to work around this problem?