Need to update already cut profile sheets......

[taneum]

We don't use the plan production tools because we do not like the face that Civil 3D cuts the main profile up into separate pieces that are referenced into each sheet.  However, another office does this so we need to learn it.  They have sheets cut for a plan and profile.  How do I add a pipe network to a profile when the sheet has already been cut?  I can add it to the main profile view but the individual profile piece that the sheet cut out is not dynamic with the main profile view so it does not show up on the sheet.

How do you update your profile view that the sheet uses?  I went through this in 2011 and it was even verified at that time that there was no way to update it but we are not robots that do everything perfect the first time, therefore, things need to be redone or added in at later times in the design process.

[doni49]

The P&P tool just creates a new Profile View (one for each sheet).  So Project your pipe to the appropriate Profile View(s).

[Jay_B]

If you're already familiar with "drawing parts in profile" for Pipe Networks, then it's very easy.

If the plan sheets are done in another or in separate dwg files from the source, then you'll need to data reference each pipe network you wish to display in the profile view.

Then draw a single part of a given network in profile view. (only 1 part required).

Then in Profile View Properties, go to the Pipe Networks Tab & toggle on/off pipes /structures as appropriate for that sheet.

Set the override styles as desired.

It's really very easy, if you have more questions ask here but if another office in your organization is doing this already, they may be able to provide more specific help, as it sounds like they already have a workflow inplace.

[taneum]

Yes I understand that, however, what do we do when we already have the sheet made and the profile view fo the sheet is already cut.  I need to add a pipe crossing to that view.  I can do it to the main profile view of the alignment but the sheet isn't referenceing that profile view.

This is why we cut our own sheets by hand.....much much easier to deal with.

[Jay_B]

Pipe Newtworks are not dependent any one profile view, they're separate objects.

[taneum]

We will try that Jay, however, where do we do all of our manjual drafting at (notes, lines, etc...), in the individual cut up profile view now?

If this is how it works we will never resort to this method as we now have two prifile view of the same data, which will be confusing to some.

[Joe-Bouza]

Plan production tool is intended to be used when all the design is done. Thats why it seems like a PITA.

Earlier you made a statement that the individule profile views are not dynamic to the main. Not true. the surface profiles and layout profiles are, but projected objects are just that "projected to the view". However if you had your networks and crossings done before PP tools they would have been projected in the cutting process and remain dynamic through out.

You hear a lot about "work flow" its important to realize that the developers meant "The civil3d Work Flow" not "MyWork Flow". to experience the full efficiency of the software.

[Neilw_05]

Think about long profile views that won't fit on a single sheet. How do you place the vertical elevations and ticks on the ends? How do you split the profile when it is too steep to fit within the vertical limits of the viewport? Too, what do you do when the ends of vertical curves get split by a match line? That is where the production tools can simplify your workflow.

Granted having the profiles split into multiple views can require duplication when manual drafting in certain scenarios but I've never found that to be a justification for laying out sheets the manual way.

[doni49]

Just what kind of manual drafting are you doing on the profiles?

I think of the big long profile as kind of an xref in which I do the design work. Then each of the cut profile views contain references to the main one (via data reference).

If you really need to do manual drafting, you could do so on the "big profile" then attach that dwg as an xref to so that each small profile view has a reference to the big one but everything beyond the limits of the small one is xclipped out. All layers from the xref'd profile are frozen except the ones containing the manual drafting elements.

If I get a chance tomorrow, I'll make up a short sample of what I mean.
Don Ireland

[doni49]

I forgot to say one other thing, if you anticipate even MAYBE having a pipe network that you will eventually want to show on the profiles: make a network even of it doesn't have any pipes and when running the P&P tool, have this network projected to the Profile.

I believe you can always go back later and add pipes to the network and have the pipe show up on the Profile view(s).
Don Ireland

[taneum]

Wow, I cannot believe the work you all go to in order to achieve this setup, and then if I have any manual linework or notes to put in my profile views, I have to decide which profile I am working in.  Sometimes the old school ways of doing things still out weighs what the software can do for you.

What do I do with my datum elevations and stations for each sheet when using one long profile view?  What we all did for years, Our grid, datum elevations, and stations are all in paperspace with a viewport looking at my main profile view.  I setup my first sheet on my layout tab.  Then, I copy the tab and on the next tab I use the "-pan" command and just pan over 500'.  Then I just edit the station numbers. I do this untill all my sheets are done. If there are large vertical differences I just use the "-pan" command and pan the view up or down as needed and then edit the datum elevations as needed.  You can setup 10-12 sheets in a matter of 30 minutes or so.  On a road project that is 5000' long, a half hour of time to do this nothing.  Regarding vertical curve data, I just drag the curve data to one sheet or the other.

Now no matter what I put in my main profile whether its a pipe network at a later date, notes, or some special drainage structure that I may custom draw, it all shows up in my sheets and most of all, I do not have my main profile view and then 10-12 mini profile views.

We all know that the design process never runs so smooth that you just cut all your sheets once the design is done, so to cut them and then have more design work to add simply does not work.

This is why I do not rely on the software to do my drafting for me, that's what engineers do, not draftsmen.

[doni49]

Take a look at the two attached files (download them both before opening them). ProfileExample contains the FULL Length Profile. The other one contains the two sheets. Notice that I renamed the xref and then attached the file a second time. Then I copied/XClipped the second file in the proper location. Now any manual drafting I want to do on the "Long Profile" can be done there and it shows up in the sheets. The sheet becomes just a place to show the info. Now I don't think I'd try doing this with text in the Long Profile. But linework and that type of thing should be fine.

[doni49]

"Wow, I cannot believe the work you all go to in order to achieve this setup" I don't normally do it like this -- but then I try to avoid doing MANUAL drafting in the profile. This was just an attempt to help you in your need to do so. Using this method, you can do your manual drafting ONCE in the Long Profile and have it show up on the sheets.

[Joe-Bouza]

I'm not judging how you choose to work (GAY GA ZINTA HATE), but what happens when the alignment gets edited and the stations you manually entered are no longer reliable and you have to rember to go back and pan all the vports?

I'll assume you use lisp routines and autotext to do 5000 feet in 30 minutes? I'm thinking 20 scale profile 600 feet per sheet 50 foot incs horizontal, say 30 foot high five foot incs

12 lable horizontal

12 labels vert

I might be able to type that fast but the drudgery would drive me insane to do that 10 to 12 times.

[Joe-Bouza]

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@taneum wrote:

We will try that Jay, however, where do we do all of our manjual drafting at (notes, lines, etc...), in the individual cut up profile view now?

If this is how it works we will never resort to this method as we now have two prifile view of the same data, which will be confusing to some.

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We draft in the deliverable sheet - it seems to make sense to us