AutoCAD Civil 3D General Discussion

AutoCAD Civil 3D General Discussion

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jmola
Posts: 32
Registered: ‎06-17-2004
Message 1 of 14 (313 Views)

Need Plan & Profile thoughts

313 Views, 13 Replies
10-12-2013 06:32 PM

i have asked this in the past, but in my company it is a re occuring situation that i haven't been able to work out to everyones satisfaction.  so i am asking for thoughts on this situation.  for the record, i am using c3d 12.  what i do is alot of road reahab.  we have to match the width of the existing road because of all the driveways, which are anything from concrete aprons to very expensive paver installations.  the other problem we have is the road itself does not have more than 1-2 ft difference in elevation.  so, due to the elevation issue, we are currently doing plan and profile, by that, i have left and right edge of pavements and a centerline profile, all on one sheet so we can actually see the grades at the driveways for puddling issues.  all that work so far is not too big a deal. what is, is when we have a curve.  the problem i have is that if i have 3 alignments going into the cuve, the inner curve alignment and outer curve alignment is different because of the curve lengths.  to fix this,  i have been using the super imposed profile into copied centerline profile view and adjusting all the information so that it is using the correct surface.

 

what i would like to know is if anyone else is doing the rehab and using multiple profiles?  and if so, what is their proceedure.  or if anyone else is doing something similar with the profiles.  i am hoping someone would be kind enough that if they do rehab work, they could post me a couple pdfs of what they look like?  i really need to show what others are doing regarding this kind of work.

 

thanks

 

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sboon
Posts: 2,204
Registered: ‎11-08-2005
Message 2 of 14 (276 Views)

Re: Need Plan & Profile thoughts

10-13-2013 09:32 PM in reply to: jmola

California and some other jurisdictions have a standard for a "three line profie" which sounds like what you need.  Essentially you have a centerline profile in the middle of the page with existing and design elevations, a left side profile at the top of the sheet and a right side at the bottom.  There is an old post here talking about them.  A Google search might find more info, or someone else may be able to post an example of what they look like.

 

Steve
Please use the Accept as Solution or Kudo buttons when appropriate

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Neilw
Posts: 2,320
Registered: ‎09-04-2006
Message 3 of 14 (269 Views)

Re: Need Plan & Profile thoughts

10-13-2013 09:58 PM in reply to: jmola

Well you are likely controlling your project from a baseline, most commonly a centerline. That is industry standard. If you need to incorporate vertical curves in your profiles, you don't want them to be applied at the edges of the roadway because that would require different curve lengths for inside vs. outside edges of the road through curves due to the difference in lengths to the tangent points.

 

I would agree that you need to translate those tangent point elevations to the centerline.

Neil Wilson (a.k.a. neilw)
Infrastructure Suite/C3D 2013, LDT 2004, Power Civil v8i SS1
WIN 7 64 PRO
HP Pavillion h8xt, i7 2600, 12 GB
RADEON 6450, 1 GB
http://www.sec-landmgt.com
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Joe-Bouza
Posts: 5,125
Registered: ‎12-15-2008
Message 4 of 14 (251 Views)

Re: Need Plan & Profile thoughts

10-14-2013 05:34 AM in reply to: jmola

I do alot of work like this too and have come to designing my edges as their own alignments and profiles and add expressionsions that reference the baseline stationing.

 

 

Thank you

Joseph D. Bouza, P.E. (one of 'THOSE' People) Civil 3D 2012 & 2013
HP Z210 Workstation
Intel Xeon CPU E31240 @ 3.30 Hz
12 GB Ram


Note: Its all Resistentialism, so keep calm and carry on

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Active Contributor
jmola
Posts: 32
Registered: ‎06-17-2004
Message 5 of 14 (199 Views)

Re: Need Plan & Profile thoughts

10-16-2013 06:23 AM in reply to: Neilw

thats exactly what i have been doing. my process was to create alignments along the edge of pavement and creating a profile.  so i have 3, alignments and profiles.  then off to the side, i would copy the profile view from the centerline and super impose the edge of pavement information in that profile view.  correct the bands to represent the correct profile information.  the problem lies iwth the curves, and being radial to the centerline for stationing.  what i need is to be able to exagerate the lengths of the grid lines to make them longer or shorter.  

 

i have even gone on some jobs with making multile alignments.  starting at the begining to the pc. then starting the algnments for the curves, then new alignments at the pt's for the rest of the lines and have tme match the centerline pt stationing so  they match.  i make sure to put my matchlines for the sheets so the curve is by itself an the tangents are on their own sheets.  when i do the curves, i have the stationing for the centerline, but hte bands stationing are removed for the edge of pavemednts so that there is no mistake.  it is an aweful  lot of work.

Active Contributor
jmola
Posts: 32
Registered: ‎06-17-2004
Message 6 of 14 (193 Views)

Re: Need Plan & Profile thoughts

10-16-2013 06:32 AM in reply to: Joe-Bouza

how do you get around the issue of the curves though? or are most of your roads fairly straight?  i have done it multiple ways as i said in previous posts and i can not seem to please everyone.

thanks

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Joe-Bouza
Posts: 5,125
Registered: ‎12-15-2008
Message 7 of 14 (185 Views)

Re: Need Plan & Profile thoughts

10-16-2013 06:47 AM in reply to: jmola
You design true length ie along the curve, you report according to base line. when the contractor read elevation offset, the true length is some what irellevant because they are staking off the BL, so they get to the correct location.
most of the streets we do are straight. pleasing everyone. yes that can be tough. If you are doing 3 line and it has to be BL oriented reader have to understand the comperession and expansion for curves. They cannot have thier cake and eat it, Either three sets of stations or live with compression expansion. IMO. You tell me or have them tell you how to show 110 ft line or 95 ft line between station 1+00 and 2+00?
Thank you

Joseph D. Bouza, P.E. (one of 'THOSE' People) Civil 3D 2012 & 2013
HP Z210 Workstation
Intel Xeon CPU E31240 @ 3.30 Hz
12 GB Ram


Note: Its all Resistentialism, so keep calm and carry on

64 Bit Win7 OS
*Expert Elite*
Neilw
Posts: 2,320
Registered: ‎09-04-2006
Message 8 of 14 (171 Views)

Re: Need Plan & Profile thoughts

10-16-2013 09:07 AM in reply to: jmola

I think you'll have to consider the standards for 3 line profiles  in your area. What is common there?

Neil Wilson (a.k.a. neilw)
Infrastructure Suite/C3D 2013, LDT 2004, Power Civil v8i SS1
WIN 7 64 PRO
HP Pavillion h8xt, i7 2600, 12 GB
RADEON 6450, 1 GB
http://www.sec-landmgt.com
*Expert Elite*
Joe-Bouza
Posts: 5,125
Registered: ‎12-15-2008
Message 9 of 14 (167 Views)

Re: Need Plan & Profile thoughts

10-16-2013 09:14 AM in reply to: sboon
If I am reading between the lines of Angles blog the three profile have common stationing, thus outter and inner curve lengths are compressed or expanded, as I have been saying below
Thank you

Joseph D. Bouza, P.E. (one of 'THOSE' People) Civil 3D 2012 & 2013
HP Z210 Workstation
Intel Xeon CPU E31240 @ 3.30 Hz
12 GB Ram


Note: Its all Resistentialism, so keep calm and carry on

64 Bit Win7 OS
Active Contributor
jmola
Posts: 32
Registered: ‎06-17-2004
Message 10 of 14 (165 Views)

Re: Need Plan & Profile thoughts

10-16-2013 09:18 AM in reply to: Neilw

i have not seen anyone else doing this in our area, thats the problem.  as someone posted above, i guess arizona and california require it.  i looked for sample plans to see if some thing is shown but i couldnt find anythng.  joe is correct, as he stated its compressed or expanded, but the program wont allow that as far a i know.  thats why i was asking if anyone else does this and for a sample on how to draft it. 

thanks

 

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