Community
Civil 3D Forum
Welcome to Autodesk’s Civil 3D Forums. Share your knowledge, ask questions, and explore popular AutoCAD Civil 3D topics.
cancel
Showing results for 
Show  only  | Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Need help with a desktop setup for Civil 3d

25 REPLIES 25
Reply
Message 1 of 26
Funkychesta
1001 Views, 25 Replies

Need help with a desktop setup for Civil 3d

My boss at our civil engineering firm is finally letting me upgrade 🙂

 

Our current setup is 5 years old

 

it's a dell T3400 intel core 2 duo CPU E8400 @3.00ghz and 3.5gb ram, nvidia quadro 600 video card got it in 2009 when i was running civil 3d 2009.

 

we are going to be running at least civil 3d 2013 with 3dsmax for our civil engineering projects. Some of our files are up to 41mb in size and are extremely slow, so im thinking 32gb of ram? and an i7 processor? i have no idea about the video card, not really sure what our budget is but (im guessing up to 2.5k more or less), but he says he wants a pc that he won't have to replace for 5 years or so. Please help out! or point me to the right thread for this post, thanks!

25 REPLIES 25
Message 2 of 26
Funkychesta
in reply to: Funkychesta

basically would this first setup be alright? i would probably upgrade it to 32gb of ram. http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/desktops-n-workstations?~ck=mn#!facets=58106~0~911380,55474~0~1138...

Message 3 of 26
tcorey
in reply to: Funkychesta

First, take a look at the Autodesk Certified Hardware database, here:

 

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/syscert?id=18844534&siteID=123112

 

The i7 you mention won't make a huge difference for Civil 3D -- it's not a multi-threaded application -- but will definitely help if you're using 3DS Max Design for rendering.

 

One thing you can do to significantly increase speed is to use a Solid State Drive (SSD) either instead of or alongside a traditional hard drive.

 

Yes, if you can get the boss to spring for 32gb memory, that can't hurt. When it comes to RAM, more is better.

 

Be absolutely sure the video card you purchase is certified by Autodesk on the database site. This is critical.

 

Lastly, don't let your boss go to the local warehouse outlet and buy the low price option. Get a workstation-level system like Dell Precision or something equivalent.

 

Best regards,

 

Tim



Tim Corey
MicroCAD Training and Consulting, Inc.
Redding, CA
Autodesk Gold Reseller

New knowledge is the most valuable commodity on earth. -- Kurt Vonnegut
Message 4 of 26
rkmcswain
in reply to: Funkychesta

Agree with all of the above. Watch out on the SSD. Since they are more expensive than spinning drives, builders tend to use a smaller drive for the boot drive. We started out with 75GB SSD's a few years ago and they stay full, especially when you consider the swap file is the same size as the RAM on-board (32GB).

 

We bumped up to 125GB SSD's recently and those are better. For example, I have C3D 2013, IDSP 2014, and IDSP 2015 installed on one (along with the normal MSOffice, etc.) and I have about 15GB free. So a 256GB SSD would be ideal, along with a 1 or 2 TB secondary drive.

 

We have a local shop build ours for about 2k and we love them. We've only had one minor issue with hardware and they came out and fixed it on the same day. Configured as the following:

 

Intel DZ77RE-75K motherboard

i7-4770k @ 3.50GHz

32GB ram

Quadro K2000

 

R.K. McSwain     | CADpanacea | on twitter
Tags (3)
Message 5 of 26
Funkychesta
in reply to: rkmcswain

we run all our files off a server but i was considering getting a 256gb solid state with a 2nd 500gb hard drive anyway because i know as soon as you open the drawing your running off your hard drives temporary folder. i had a question with about the HDD controller, is an integrated intel ahci SATA controller all you need for running an ssd? or does it cap your speeds? I am not too familiar on the subject and i noticed there are several different options with the dell precision workstations, some of the price differences are 500 dollars!

 

My second option was the dell xps pc's, i noticed their video card is an AMD Radeon HD R9 270 2gb GDDR5. I googled it and found it was just as good if not better then some of the Autodesk recommended video cards on the link that was given to me. However it is not on the list, my question is will i have problems if i go use this option for my video card? how can i know for sure? Please let me know! thanks appreciate the help, im a long time civil 3d enthusiast.

Message 6 of 26
rkmcswain
in reply to: Funkychesta

Generally speaking, using a non-certified/recommended display adapter only means that Autodesk has not tested it, and that if/when you run into video problems, they will provide limited or no support.

It may work, it may not work. It may work 99% of the time, it may cause crashes daily. I have a non-certified one in a laptop that is unusable with hardware acceleration enabled, but I just turn this off and I can live with it for the types of things I'm doing.

I would research it thoroughly before committing to something not on the list.

R.K. McSwain     | CADpanacea | on twitter
Message 7 of 26
dgorsman
in reply to: Funkychesta

Throwing money at hardware will only partially compensate for bad data management.  The relationship between software performance and hardware cost isn't a straight line - you could spend $10K on a computer and get only a marginal increase in performance.  That file size needs to come down.  Are you following the recommended work practices regarding XREFs and data references?

----------------------------------
If you are going to fly by the seat of your pants, expect friction burns.
"I don't know" is the beginning of knowledge, not the end.


Message 8 of 26
Funkychesta
in reply to: dgorsman

I've never had to in the past, always kept the surface in the drawing. Recently however our surfaces have become much larger, i'm talking about 5,000 pts+ for some of our surfaces. I realize that this is something i'm going to start having to incorporate (xrefs, and data references). Especially since some of our sheets are in the 20+ range. My upgrades for hardware are mostly to utilize the 3ds max features where i can show our clients what their project is going to look like using renders and models exported from civil 3d. Thanks for the tip though. I'm going to show both dell pc's(xps and precision) to my boss come monday and let him know that the precision has the graphics card that is recommended by autocad, and it looks like the XPS and its radeon hd will work, but it hasn't been tested by autocad and i'll let him choose whether the 1,000 dollar price difference is worth the risk. thanks for everyones help!

Message 9 of 26
dgorsman
in reply to: Funkychesta

If you have a suite product, I would highly recommend you use Navisworks for client presentations.  Quality is somewhat less than 3DS MAX but the learning curve is so low as to be non-existent (we have salespeople using it for client presentations!), and with the no-license Freedom program allows others to navigate at will through models published to NWD.

----------------------------------
If you are going to fly by the seat of your pants, expect friction burns.
"I don't know" is the beginning of knowledge, not the end.


Message 10 of 26
neilyj666
in reply to: dgorsman

In my experience the quality of Navisworks output is dire, I use infraworks for visuals but would prefer to use navisworks sometimes

neilyj (No connection with Autodesk other than using the products in the real world)
Did you find this post helpful? Feel free to Like this post.
Did your question get successfully answered? Then click on the ACCEPT SOLUTION button.

EESignature


AEC Collection 2024 UKIE (mainly Civil 3D UKIE and IW)
Win 11 Pro x64, 1Tb Primary SSD, 1Tb Secondary SSD
64Gb RAM Intel(R) Xeon(R) W-11855M CPU @ 3.2GHz
NVIDIA RTX A5000 16Gb, Dual 27" Monitor, Dell Inspiron 7760
Message 11 of 26
BWYarger
in reply to: neilyj666

Is there an advantage in getting a pricier Xeon processor over an I-7? 

 

Brad
LT, C3D 2005 - 2024
Windows XP, Vista, 7, 10, 11
Message 12 of 26
tcorey
in reply to: BWYarger

Xeon will help some, but for my dollars I would rather spend the extra on Solid State Drive than Xeon processor. If you can spend for both, all the better.



Tim Corey
MicroCAD Training and Consulting, Inc.
Redding, CA
Autodesk Gold Reseller

New knowledge is the most valuable commodity on earth. -- Kurt Vonnegut
Message 13 of 26
BWYarger
in reply to: tcorey

I am looking for things that will have major impact on rebuilds and syncronizing data references.  I am currently using:

 

HP Elitebook 8760 Mobile Workstation

I7 - 2820QM @ 2.3 GHz (8 cores)

16 GB Ram

Corsair Force 3 440 GB SSD

NVIDIA Quadro 3000M

HP Docking station

Dual 22" Acer Monitors (They're not great, but not slowing me down.)

 

Data is kept on a 1 TB Buffalo Terra Pro 2 network drive that is half full.  It is old in computer terms.  It is striped and mirrored across four phyiscal drives within the network drive.  Does the network drive have any real impact on things like rebuilds and data references?  I can see where it might for the data references.

 

What sort of upgrades assuming a new desktop will help compared to what I have?

 

Brad
LT, C3D 2005 - 2024
Windows XP, Vista, 7, 10, 11
Message 14 of 26
dgorsman
in reply to: BWYarger

Modern mobile computers will automatically throttle back performance to improve battery life.  Might want to confirm this isn't being done behind your back, even if you are docked.

 

Using Xeon processors have two main benefits: you can have multiple processors on one motherboard to throw more cores at a problem (not very helpful with Civil3D), and the amount of accessible RAM increases proportionally with the number of processors e.g. a motherboard with four Xeon processors can access somewhere in the region of 100+ GB RAM.  Kinda-sorta useful for Civil3D but there are other, easier, and far cheaper methods to improve performance.

----------------------------------
If you are going to fly by the seat of your pants, expect friction burns.
"I don't know" is the beginning of knowledge, not the end.


Message 15 of 26
BWYarger
in reply to: dgorsman

I will check the power saving settings on the laptop.

 

Looking at my specs above on the laptop, what should I change out to increase performance in C3D 2014 and beyond?  My main issues tend to be rebuilding corridors and surfaces, and syncronizing data references.  Am I better off spending the same money on I7 as a Xeon when in the high-end work station price range if I only get one xeon processor?  Hopefully Autodesk will eventually use multi-threading for things like rebuilding multiple cooridors at the same time. Will more ram past 16 GB help?  Would a better graphics card help?  I know a better graphics card will help with the accuracy of the display, but will it actually speed up rebuilds and synchronizing?  Is the network drive an issue with rebuilds?  I suspect not, but could a faster network drive speed up synchronizing?

 

Brad
LT, C3D 2005 - 2024
Windows XP, Vista, 7, 10, 11
Message 16 of 26
dgorsman
in reply to: BWYarger

For a single processor, a fast i7 (even an i5) will beat the pants off an Xeon processor.

 

Multi-threading is a tricky business.  I'm not intimately familiar with the processes involved in rebuilding a corridor (for example) but here's the rub: for work to be spread out between multiple threads, the data they rely upon cannot be altered before they are finished.  If the data required by one calculation requires another calculation to be finished first they cannot be run at the same time.

 

Throwing more money at hardware won't address any structural problems with data or file size, so its better to address those before you pull out the wallet.  Your specs should be sufficient for most work.  For RAM considerations, use the built-in tools to monitor how much is being used when things are slow (hint: it will only take as much as it needs; forcing it to use more wouldn't do anything).  If it gets close to your maximum then yes, more is better.  "Accuracy of the display" is a bit of a misnomer as the numbers and math are in the model and manipulated by the CPU, not the GPU.  Better video cards hold more data so need to be refreshed less often, and process more quickly so the data that has been loaded can be manipulated more quickly.  Civil3D doesn't make a lot of use of those functions however - those benefits are mostly for visualization software and associated GPU rendering methods.

 

 

----------------------------------
If you are going to fly by the seat of your pants, expect friction burns.
"I don't know" is the beginning of knowledge, not the end.


Message 17 of 26
Cadguru42
in reply to: dgorsman


@dgorsman wrote:

Modern mobile computers will automatically throttle back performance to improve battery life.  Might want to confirm this isn't being done behind your back, even if you are docked.

 

Using Xeon processors have two main benefits: you can have multiple processors on one motherboard to throw more cores at a problem (not very helpful with Civil3D), and the amount of accessible RAM increases proportionally with the number of processors e.g. a motherboard with four Xeon processors can access somewhere in the region of 100+ GB RAM.  Kinda-sorta useful for Civil3D but there are other, easier, and far cheaper methods to improve performance.


That is not quite correct. The number of CPU cores does not relate to the amount of RAM used. They are seperate. The OS being 64-bit & the program being 64-bit arewhat allows more than 4GB of RAM to be used up to whatever the program needs. If you don't have the physical RAM, then the swap file gets used. I've never had C3D take up more than 3GB of memory ever. Others may have more intensive drawings, but even with aerial photos being used I've never seen acad.exe ever use more than 3GB. 

 

Xeons are a waste of money for C3D and AutoCAD. Since AutoCAD (C3D) isn't multithreaded, core speed is the main factor in how fast it'll work and i7s are much faster than Xeons. Xeons are for servers, have slower cores, but more cache and are more stable than i7s for prolonged use. 

 

Graphics cards are a hit and miss. It depends on what you're doing whether it's worth spending more for workstation class cards versus game cards. If you're only using C3D then a gaming card is fine as the only time AutoCAD (C3D) will be tasking a GPU is when you orbit. Since us civil guys mostly work in top view or an isometric, it's a waste of money to purchase a workstation class card. If you're using 3ds Max, InfraWorks, Navisworks, etc. then it's worth getting a Quadro card. I wouldn't recommend AMD's workstation cards as Autodesk basically designs their software around NVIDIA. There are more bugs with AMD cards than NVIDIA in regards to Autodesk's software, but AMD's gaming cards are really good. 

 

As you said earlier, the main way to speed up C3D is two fold. The first is a SDD for a system drive. That is probably the largest speed increase you can get for a computer at the moment. The second is project management. Splitting the drawings based on Civil objects and using data shortcuts / XREFs can dramatically speed up C3D while working on a project. 

 

Below is at workstation I just spec'd for myself last week from Xi Computer. I also use Adobe's CS6 (never CC!!!) and 3ds Max heavily. It came out to $1700, which is a great price for what you get. 

 

Intel Core i7-4790 3.6/4GHz Quad Core

8GB DDR 1600MHz RAM

NVIDIA Quadro K600 1GB DDR5

250GB SSD SATA III (6Gb/s) System Drive

500GB SSD SATA III (6Gb/s) Data Drive

DVD +/- Burner

Windows 8.1 Pro

Three year warranty

 

Hopefully our IT department will get it ordered and I'll have it in about 2 weeks. 

C3D 2022-2024
Windows 10 Pro
32GB RAM
Message 18 of 26
dgorsman
in reply to: Cadguru42

I probably should have been more clear on the RAM vs. number of CPUs point.  I'm not referring to the amount available to the system, but the maximum amount that can be supported on the motherboard.  Desktop motherboards only support up to 32 GB RAM (24 GB limit was common on earlier products).  A motherboard for a single Xeon processor has that same limitation.  When the motherboard supports more processors, it will also support more RAM e.g. dual-processor motherboards will support up to 48 GB RAM.

----------------------------------
If you are going to fly by the seat of your pants, expect friction burns.
"I don't know" is the beginning of knowledge, not the end.


Message 19 of 26
jmayo-EE
in reply to: dgorsman

Could I ask all of you how much your would prefer to budget for a PC running C3D?

 

 

John Mayo

EESignature

Message 20 of 26
Cadguru42
in reply to: jmayo-EE


@jmayo wrote:

Could I ask all of you how much your would prefer to budget for a PC running C3D?

 

 


If you're running C3D and the other IDSP software, I'd recommend what I spec'd earlier. It'll run about $1,700-$1,900 and should last for 4 to 5 years.

 

If you're only running C3D and no other design software, I'd recommend dropping the video card down to a gaming card and switching the second 500GB SSD to a HDD. That should drop the price about $300-$400, making a workstation about $1,300-$1,600. 

 

These are both without a monitor and include a 3 year warranty, btw.

C3D 2022-2024
Windows 10 Pro
32GB RAM

Can't find what you're looking for? Ask the community or share your knowledge.

Post to forums  

Rail Community


 

Autodesk Design & Make Report