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Multiple Auto Generated Point Groups

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Message 1 of 18
JoshRTA
5637 Views, 17 Replies

Multiple Auto Generated Point Groups

I am running into a problem where Civil 3D is creating multiple point groups of my 4 existing groups (the original group names are Topo, Existing Ground, Hide, and All Points).  The new groups seem to be copies of the originals in terms of styles but do not include the points  that were designated in the originals (no points are assigned in these copies).

 

The groups appear some time after I create the surface.

 

I've also noticed that this occurs in my list of grading criteria as well. 

 

Any help you can offer (or if you have even heard of this problem) would be appreciated.

 

--

Joshua Adam
Uintah Engineering
85 South 200 East
17 REPLIES 17
Message 2 of 18
tcorey
in reply to: JoshRTA

That's a weird one, Josh. Post your drawing and maybe someone can figure out what's happening here.



Tim Corey
MicroCAD Training and Consulting, Inc.
Redding, CA
Autodesk Gold Reseller

New knowledge is the most valuable commodity on earth. -- Kurt Vonnegut
Message 3 of 18
JoshRTA
in reply to: tcorey

Here is the drawing including the error.  Hope this helps.

Message 4 of 18
stacy.dunn
in reply to: JoshRTA

I have seen that happen when you insert another drawing with the same groups in it.  Could you have a block that has duplicate information in it?

Stacy Dunn
Message 5 of 18
JoshRTA
in reply to: stacy.dunn

I haven't inserted any drawings or blocks from anywhere.  There are quite a few blocks stored in the drawing but those came from the template. 

 

I did import a point file (pnezd format) but the groups did not appeared until sometime after that.

Message 6 of 18
tcorey
in reply to: JoshRTA

Hi Josh,

 

The only thing I see out of the ordinary is that you are double-specifying your inclusion criteria. For example, you have the Topo group set to Include Raw Descriptions Matching a couple of values, and then you also create a query on the same values. You don't need to do that.

 

I don't know if this is in any way related to the issue of the duplicate point groups, but it's the only thing I see that isn't totally kosher.

 

You don't happen to be using Vault, do you? If so, maybe the point groups are locked in the project so the program creates a new one in the drawing if the group needs to change?

 

Maybe you're using a Survey database with Survey Point groups? Any chance of this?

 

I have been supporting this software since it came out and have never seen anything like this.

 

Here are some questions ot ask yourself: Have you ever seen this happen in a different drawing? If you delete the point groups, do they come back? Are you able to tell me what you were doing immediately before you noticed this issue? Do you have any third-party apps running on top of Civil 3D? Have you used command line version of Purge (-purge?) Recover? Audit?

 

What's the origin of the drawing file? Was it created from your standard template, sent from outside your company, an old Land Desktop drawing?

 

Have fun with this one. It's perplexing.

 

 

 

Tim

 



Tim Corey
MicroCAD Training and Consulting, Inc.
Redding, CA
Autodesk Gold Reseller

New knowledge is the most valuable commodity on earth. -- Kurt Vonnegut
Message 7 of 18
JoshRTA
in reply to: tcorey

Just an update and response to Tim,

 

I haven't been using Vault, third party apps, or a survey database (not that I know of anyway, I just imported the points from a .csv, comma delineated file).  I have since deleted the point groups and they have not come back but the drawing drags and runs slow causing CAD to crash about 2-3  times an hour.

 

The drawing is coming from a new template that me and several others in the office are using.  We have noticed that this does not happen every time. It occurs about once every three of four drawings, and always soon after the existing ground surface is created from the existing ground point group. 

 

 

Message 8 of 18
tcorey
in reply to: JoshRTA

Josh, I'm sorry, but I don't know what's causing this. It's very strange.

 

If you're on subscription, you should send this in to Autodesk tech support. If they are able to give you an answer, please follow up to the group.

 

If I have some sudden inspiration that provides and answer I will do the same. Don't count on it, though.Smiley Wink



Tim Corey
MicroCAD Training and Consulting, Inc.
Redding, CA
Autodesk Gold Reseller

New knowledge is the most valuable commodity on earth. -- Kurt Vonnegut
Message 9 of 18
SethHall
in reply to: JoshRTA

Hi Josh-

 

Personally I have seen this issue occur a few times in the past, mostly with grading groups. For some reason the .1, .2, .1.1, etc. suffix gets added to the existing grading groups as they get duplicated in the drawing. If I recall correctly this was traced back to a corrupted drawing, and moving the data to a new clean drawing resolved the issue.

 

Have you confirmed that this is happening in multiple drawings? If so were all the drawing exhibiting the issue created from the same template?


Seth Hall
Product Owner
Model Builder
Message 10 of 18
JoshRTA
in reply to: SethHall

It seems like Seth may have been right on this one.  I've been able to clean up the template and have been using it for a week and haven't had any new problems come up.  I used some help from Shawn Herring from prosoft to clean up the corrupted file.  Here is his advice:

 

I analyzed your file and found a lot of corruptions.  Perform a clean up in the DWG file, as described below:

- Open the files in AutoCAD Civil 3D 2012 with Recover;
- Apply the command "-purge", and select Regapps;
- Apply the comand "-scalelistedit", and select Delete
- Run the command Overkill;

Then, delete the duplicated Point Groups, leaving just the desired groups (Topo,  Existing Ground, Hide, _All Points and _No Show) and save as a new file.

I recommend to perform a' Recover' and 'Audit' procedures regularly to avoid new corruptions.

 

This worked for me.  Hope it helps someone else in the future.

Message 11 of 18
mackland
in reply to: JoshRTA

We have this problem in Civil2013 - 2015 and 2016. We have to do a lot of audits but not before you get several auto-generated groups.

 

We have sent the info to Autodesk and they have responded with "it is a known issue" no solution has been found yet. It happens at any time with or without a surface.

 

I believe it is an issue with the points are "lost track of" (for a lack of a better term) and it "re-establishes" the points and in doing that it finds the points with group info. Then because the group exists it automatically makes a new one with a period and number added. It has to do with an issue keeping track of the points, loosing track of them and then re-establishing that connection. So far the points do not get re-numbered. I think this is the just of what is happening.

Message 12 of 18
mackland
in reply to: mackland

This is the error that usually indicates that some error has occurred with the file and if I do an audit it's fine. Sometimes it occurs 1-2 times a day sometimes it's every 30 minutes. Different files, different computers, etc.

 

CANT SAVE 2016-09-07.JPG

Message 13 of 18
rl_jackson
in reply to: JoshRTA

The reason the point groups are in the drawing with a number at the end is because you have inserted a drawing that had the same point group name that the current drawing does. Civil 3d does this anytime you insert a drawing that has the same Point Group Name.

Rick Jackson
Survey CAD Technician VI

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Message 14 of 18
mackland
in reply to: rl_jackson

I didn't insert more points. This happens at different times, differnet files, different computers.



Mark Ackland
Cad Tech

[compass_rgb]


2631 Ginger Woods Parkway, Suite 100, Aurora, Illinois 60502
Phone: (630) 820-9100 Fax: (630) 820-7030
www.clsurveying.com

These documents in this electronic format are being provided to you at your request. This electronic data is provided for the recipients use only. Due to the unsecured nature of these electronic documents and the inability of the originator to establish controls over the use thereof, Compass Surveying Ltd. assumes no responsibility for any consequences arising out of the use of this data. It is the sole responsibility of the user to check the validity of all information contained herein. The user shall at all times refer to the signed and sealed paper copies of the document(s). The user shall assume all risks and liabilities resulting from the use of this data
Message 15 of 18
stacy.dunn
in reply to: mackland

Mark,

 

It sounds like it is a block drawing that contains the duplicate point groups.  You could test this by removing all of the point groups from an empty drawing and then insert your blocks into it and checking for the appearance of point groups.  If you have a shared block library, this would explain why it is happening on other computers.

 

 

Stacy Dunn
Message 16 of 18
mackland
in reply to: stacy.dunn

No, there is not a block-in drawing. It is having a problem with points. It looses track (best I can think to describe it) then when it re-establishes the "link" to the points it thinks it a duplicate group name but not a duplicate point somehow. If it had a duplicate point it would re-number the point or overwrite. (It would give one the options on how to deal with the duplicate points) What is strange is that the automatically created groups do not have any points in them. Just an empty group with the ".1 or .1.1" after it.



Mark Ackland
Cad Tech

[compass_rgb]


2631 Ginger Woods Parkway, Suite 100, Aurora, Illinois 60502
Phone: (630) 820-9100 Fax: (630) 820-7030
www.clsurveying.com

These documents in this electronic format are being provided to you at your request. This electronic data is provided for the recipients use only. Due to the unsecured nature of these electronic documents and the inability of the originator to establish controls over the use thereof, Compass Surveying Ltd. assumes no responsibility for any consequences arising out of the use of this data. It is the sole responsibility of the user to check the validity of all information contained herein. The user shall at all times refer to the signed and sealed paper copies of the document(s). The user shall assume all risks and liabilities resulting from the use of this data
Message 17 of 18
jmayo-EE
in reply to: JoshRTA

IME this is expected behaivor if you use the Insert command insert a file with Civil 3D data and/or if you use the clipboard to copy/paste civil 3d data.

 

The point groups, surfaces, etc being renamed is by design  believe.

 

I think the grading criteria is just an old issue that was not resolved. 

John Mayo

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Message 18 of 18
mackland
in reply to: jmayo-EE

Not sure what your talking about. I did none of those. The points where in the drawing and I was drawing only.

I get this error and the new groups started showing up. I did not insert anything at any time. Just lines and hatch and plines



Mark Ackland
Cad Tech

[compass_rgb]


2631 Ginger Woods Parkway, Suite 100, Aurora, Illinois 60502
Phone: (630) 820-9100 Fax: (630) 820-7030
www.clsurveying.com

These documents in this electronic format are being provided to you at your request. This electronic data is provided for the recipients use only. Due to the unsecured nature of these electronic documents and the inability of the originator to establish controls over the use thereof, Compass Surveying Ltd. assumes no responsibility for any consequences arising out of the use of this data. It is the sole responsibility of the user to check the validity of all information contained herein. The user shall at all times refer to the signed and sealed paper copies of the document(s). The user shall assume all risks and liabilities resulting from the use of this data

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