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Move/Rotate entire drawing

18 REPLIES 18
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Message 1 of 19
Tentie
5908 Views, 18 Replies

Move/Rotate entire drawing

Here is my situation: Drawing started in LDD a few years ago.  It was on a local coordinate system of 1000,1000.

The drawing has since been migrated to C3D2012.  Now we have data in UTM coordinates that we need to match to the old data.  Actually, we want to shift/rotate the entire original set of data to match the new UTM data, so we can continue in UTM for all future data collection.

 

So, I went through and turned all layers on, Thawed them and unlocked them.  I made sure all points were visable, etc.  Then I tried to move the original data (I also tried the align command, etc., with the same results) and found a glitch.  After I moved the data, I found that there was some points and survey figures as well as a cooridore, that had not moved.  The vast majority of the drawing had moved as expected, but the afore mentioned data would not move.

 

Does anyone have any ideas on what I may have missed?  Or can this excercise even be done?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Glen W. Cameron, C.E.T.
Engineering Technician 1
City of North Bay
North Bay, Ontario, Canada
18 REPLIES 18
Message 2 of 19
Jeff_M
in reply to: Tentie

The corridor should move when you rebuild it (it's based on the alignment locations). If the points that don't move are Survey points, (I don't use survey points so not sure about this) they may need to be unlocked in the Survey database...same thing for the figures.

 

If you have surfaces in the drawing, which are defined by drawing objects, don't move the surface. It will move when rebuilt as well....any manual edits will be lost since these are based on absolute xyz values.

Jeff_M, also a frequent Swamper
EESignature
Message 3 of 19
TCARCAMO78
in reply to: Tentie

Ok here is what i would have done. i would setup or open your new drawing that has the UTM coordinate system. Xref in your old drawing file. Then move, rotate and align the xref drawing to your new coordinate system. Then bind the xref dwg into your current drawing. See if that works. I dont deal a lot with the suverying side but im not surprise that your points and survey figures didnt move. Anyways hopefully that works for your.

 

 

Tony

CAD Manager

www.tonyscivil3dworld.blogspot.com

 

Tony Carcamo
CAD Manager
www.tonyscivil3dworld.blogspot.com
Message 4 of 19
Tentie
in reply to: Jeff_M

I have checked and nothing appears to be locked, point, point groups, etc..  I realize that surfaces, etc. will update after the movement of the points, minus edits, and that does not worry me.  It is the ppoints and survey figures that won't move and I can't finad anywhere showing that they are locked.

 

I will try the Xref option and see if that gets around the issue.

 

Thanks for the input!

 

Glen W. Cameron, C.E.T.
Engineering Technician 1
City of North Bay
North Bay, Ontario, Canada
Message 5 of 19
antoniovinci
in reply to: Tentie

I guess the right command is _ALIGN in this case, not _MOVE...

Message 6 of 19
Tentie
in reply to: TCARCAMO78

Good thought but it did not work either.  I did the XREF and aligned it in 2D as desired.  Then I tried to BIND the XREF both as an Insert and a Bind, and got the following error:

 

"Error: At least one of the specified xrefs failed to bind for an unknown reason."

 

 

Glen W. Cameron, C.E.T.
Engineering Technician 1
City of North Bay
North Bay, Ontario, Canada
Message 7 of 19
Jeff_M
in reply to: Tentie

Surfaces are known to cause Xrefs not to bind....

 

Can you post, or email, the dwg? 

jeffm AT quuxsoft DOT com

Jeff_M, also a frequent Swamper
EESignature
Message 8 of 19
Tentie
in reply to: Tentie

OKay - let's get even more straight forward.

 

I start a new drawing using our template.  I import a small FBK file and try to manually move a point - no luck.

 

If I manually set a COGO point, I am able to move it.

 

So it appears it has to do with the points coming from a FBK file or similar.

 

Hmmmmm.

Glen W. Cameron, C.E.T.
Engineering Technician 1
City of North Bay
North Bay, Ontario, Canada
Message 9 of 19
Jeff_M
in reply to: Tentie

Yes, as I mentioned before, they must be unlocked in the survey database. The other points not moving correctly are the LDT points. They have the 'true' Northing/Easting embedded in the point, so you end up moving the label, but it points back to the 'true' N/E. To get around this, convert these points to C3D points before the move/rotate.

 

You may be able to convert the FBK to be on the same new coordinate system and rotation by drawing linework connecting the new known location to the control points used to define the location of the FBK. Move/rotate just that linework, extract the coordinates you want the control points to be at, edit the FBK accordingly. There may (probably are) be other ways to do this, hopefully someone who uses the FBK's more than I can chime in on this part of it.

Jeff_M, also a frequent Swamper
EESignature
Message 10 of 19
Tentie
in reply to: Jeff_M

Okay - I finally found where I can unlock the survey point database for the FBK files.  Now I can move the points generated from the FBK.

 

However - the Figures do not seem to have an unlock option in the same menu area.  I still can't move them.

 

Glen W. Cameron, C.E.T.
Engineering Technician 1
City of North Bay
North Bay, Ontario, Canada
Message 11 of 19
Jeff_M
in reply to: Tentie

If you need to maintain the connection to the FBK's, someone else will have to jump in here. If not, you could just explode the figures to 3dpolys and move them.

Jeff_M, also a frequent Swamper
EESignature
Message 12 of 19
Tentie
in reply to: Jeff_M

Thank you for your time and words of wisdom.

 

I would prefer to maintain the figures, so I hope someone else may have another suggestion or two to try. 🙂

 

 

Glen W. Cameron, C.E.T.
Engineering Technician 1
City of North Bay
North Bay, Ontario, Canada
Message 13 of 19
TCARCAMO78
in reply to: Jeff_M

can you extract the figures thru the xref using the copy nested objects command onces you have the old drawing aligned with the new base drawing?

 

Tony

CAD Manager

www.tonyscivil3dworld.blogspot.com

Tony Carcamo
CAD Manager
www.tonyscivil3dworld.blogspot.com
Message 14 of 19
davehi
in reply to: Tentie

Have you tried using the Translate Database command?

 

You can use it to move alll the data in the suvey database to a new location.

 

DaveH

Dave Hill
Message 15 of 19
Neilw_05
in reply to: davehi

I'm not an expert on the Survey Database but it is my understanding that one of the strengths of the survey database is the ability to reproject the survey to other coordinate systems. Thus you should be able specify the transformation parameters to project your local survey to a UTM.

 

Richard Sincovec (sinc) can probably help with the workflow. You might try giving him a ping.

Neil Wilson (a.k.a. neilw)
AEC Collection/C3D 2024, LDT 2004, Power Civil v8i SS1
WIN 10 64 PRO

http://www.sec-landmgt.com
Message 16 of 19
fordtruckman
in reply to: Tentie

This is the issue I cannot find a solution to.  How do you "unlock the survey database?"  I have read many people say that's what needs to be dont to rotate or edit survey points but then I haven't seen anyone actually explain how to do it.  The closest I got was "Prospector-Settings-Point-(right click)-Edit Feature Settings-Update Points-'Allow Checked In Points to be Modified'-True"  except then the points still won't rotate.

 

Any ideas?  I'm trying to rotate a preliminary survey about a point a certain number of degrees to match existing survey data.  Everything in the drawing rotated except the survey points....

Message 17 of 19
davehi
in reply to: fordtruckman

Give this method a try if you wish to adjust the Survey Database.

 

From the Survey Toolspace open the Survey Database you want to edit.

From the Survey Ribbon choose the "Modify" band from the Modify panel.

Pick Translate database

 

(you could also enter "Translatesvdatabase" at the command line to run it)

 

The Translate Survey Database dialogue box will open and then you can set your basepoint, rotation angles, etc. which will move the entire database to the new location.

Import the points from the surveydatabse as usual.

Dave Hill
Message 18 of 19
Tentie
in reply to: davehi

I finally had some time to dig into this and get a working solution. What I finally did to get this to work was: 1) I started a new clean drawing using my normal template drawing. 2) I created a new Survey Database 3) I imported the FBK file that was on UTM coordinates (which needed to be moved/rotated to a local coordinate system in an existing drawing) 4) I added a line to go between 2 control points from the old coordinate system into the new drawing (this will be used as a referance to apply the translation of the new data) 5) I ran the Translate database command to move/rotate all the new survey data and survey figures to the old corresponding control point locations. 6) After confirming the move/rotation went correctly in the new drawing, I saved the drawing and exited. 7) I then opened the old drawing 😎 I inserted the new drawing into the old drawing at 0,0 so they remain on the same coordinate system. As it was being inserted I ensured the Explode option was checked on. 9) Once it was inserted I checked the new survey points and the points were all added to the old database. The survey firgures had also all been added to the old drawing, all at the correct local coordinate system, as desired. 10) I could then create my point groups, etc. as desired. Life is good now! I want to thank all those that did provide their comments and suggestions - without all of you I probably would not have figured this out. So I wnated to summarize my steps in case it helps someone else in the future! Cheers,
Glen W. Cameron, C.E.T.
Engineering Technician 1
City of North Bay
North Bay, Ontario, Canada
Message 19 of 19
annw2
in reply to: TCARCAMO78

I would NEVER bind an XREF except for archival files you never want to use again.

 

Start with a new Civil 3d file & insert the old LDD file as an unexploded block.  Then Align to your new system. Then explode.

Ann Wingert, P.E.

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