AutoCAD Civil 3D General Discussion

AutoCAD Civil 3D General Discussion

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quinnp
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎02-17-2011
Message 1 of 9 (1,474 Views)

Modeling Gas Network - Constant Cover Pipe Rules

1474 Views, 8 Replies
02-22-2011 08:43 AM

I'm attempting to model a gas network using the pipe tools (Civil 3D 2011). The problems I'm having:

 

1) The pipes are coming in at all depths (mostly too deep), rather than at the constant 3' cover I would like.

 

2) Pipes all have zero slope and "stairstep" at null structures, instead of sloping with the surface.

 

My pipe rule set is:

Cover only, min/max 3'

Match pipe-to-pipe, inv 0'

 

I tried adding a slope rule, it dropped pipes lower.

 

For structure rules, I have tried both 0' drop across structure, and no rules (hoping pipe match would take over). All are null structures.

 

I do have the surface referenced, and it is being recognized (structure rims insert at grade).

 

Anyone have any solution ideas?

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wfberry
Posts: 1,842
Registered: ‎09-05-2006
Message 2 of 9 (1,462 Views)

Re: Modeling Gas Network - Constant Cover Pipe Rules

02-22-2011 09:40 AM in reply to: quinnp

Draw pipe at surface grade, when finished drop 3' (or 3' plus pipe diameter).

 

Bill

 

Valued Contributor
C3D_User
Posts: 50
Registered: ‎02-20-2010
Message 3 of 9 (1,455 Views)

Re: Modeling Gas Network - Constant Cover Pipe Rules

02-22-2011 10:19 AM in reply to: quinnp

Don't even bother with pipe Networks. It's to much of a pain and not to mention a lot of overhead in the drawing. Create a new Profile Style and call it GAS.  Create a suite of Profile Label Styles for Pressure Pipe situations (Profile Label Sets).  I also do this with Water Mains. The best part is they are all dynamic, and a lot faster than Pipe Networks. I have tried some of the fancy new Pipe Network Structures and Pipes.  The problem with those are the way they look in Profile which is awful.

 

Regards, K

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Neilw
Posts: 2,253
Registered: ‎09-04-2006
Message 4 of 9 (1,442 Views)

Re: Modeling Gas Network - Constant Cover Pipe Rules

02-22-2011 10:36 AM in reply to: quinnp

There have been several posts about profiling water lines at a fixed depth from ground. Gas and other "dry utilities" can be handled similarly. Here is a recent post on the methods others have recommended.

 

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/AutoCAD-Civil-3D/Feature-line-created-from-polyline-offset-from-alignm...

Neil Wilson (a.k.a. neilw)
Infrastructure Suite/C3D 2013, LDT 2004, Power Civil v8i SS1
WIN 7 64 PRO
HP Pavillion h8xt, i7 2600, 12 GB
RADEON 6450, 1 GB
http://www.sec-landmgt.com
Distinguished Contributor
annw2
Posts: 1,263
Registered: ‎03-07-2006
Message 5 of 9 (1,416 Views)

Re: Modeling Gas Network - Constant Cover Pipe Rules

02-22-2011 03:07 PM in reply to: Neilw

Hi:

 

That is my post from my first ever gas pipeline project.

 

If the goal is not modeling a lot of the pipes themselves, but mostly to show a gas line parralel to an existing or proposed profile, the corridor method from the post mentioned works the best.

 

Here is a summary and what I found out today.

 

Have alignment.

Create profile either from eg or design for the pipe to reference

Create assembly

  Vertical link down to top of pipe = desired depth of cover.

     Adjust subassembly property to omit link from model

  Add basic lanes left and right approxmately 1 ft wider than trench with pavement thickness = to diameter of pipe desired. 0% slope

 

Create simpe corridor from 3 above items.  Save drawing - Very important at this step.

Right click corridor to adjust beginning and ending stations - 50-50 probability of crash.  Will work the next time (?)

 Adjust frequency of sections to about 20' or what needed for pipes

  click off the sections at profile points if using eg.

  click off the super elevation option or anything else that looks problematical.

accept and save.

Trace along alignment and look for sections that cross each other - break corridor into segments with gaps where the section crosses occur.

Add cross sections at PI's where needed when the corridor necks down to nothing. - Accept and save

Create a top surface and use the automatic boundary feature for the top.

Check top surface - I was getting an 80 section at the 2.4 mile mark that shot down to 0 - No idea why.  I just created a gap in the corridor and let the model interprolate between.  Luckily it was a flat area.

Create a second surface from the datum and the boundary from the subbase.

Look for any other odd points.

Create a profile from each surface

Add profiles to profile view using a profile style to reflect your proposed pipe drafting standards - No labels

Create profile Label line style for "Proposed X" gas main"  Add label only between stations where you want it on each profile view.

I did this is a separate drawing then created data shortcuts of the profiles to DREF into each of the plan and profile drawings created for production plotting.

 

Hope this helps.  It took awhile for the concept to sink in for me

 

I haven't gotten to manual adjustments for obstructions yet.

 

 

 

 

 

Ann Wingert, P.E.
Valued Contributor
civ_engineer
Posts: 84
Registered: ‎07-08-2005
Message 6 of 9 (794 Views)

Re: Modeling Gas Network - Constant Cover Pipe Rules

11-13-2012 09:00 AM in reply to: quinnp

Did you ever get the pipe rule to do what you wanted?  Currently, I'm draping a feature on the existing surface, lowering the elevations and adding that to a network.  It seems like Autodesk would have a better method by now.

 

Civil 3D 2012, SP2

Windows 64 bit

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Neilw
Posts: 2,253
Registered: ‎09-04-2006
Message 7 of 9 (788 Views)

Re: Modeling Gas Network - Constant Cover Pipe Rules

11-13-2012 09:14 AM in reply to: civ_engineer

The "better method" is now the pressure pipe tool. It was just introduced in C3D 2013.

Neil Wilson (a.k.a. neilw)
Infrastructure Suite/C3D 2013, LDT 2004, Power Civil v8i SS1
WIN 7 64 PRO
HP Pavillion h8xt, i7 2600, 12 GB
RADEON 6450, 1 GB
http://www.sec-landmgt.com
Valued Contributor
civ_engineer
Posts: 84
Registered: ‎07-08-2005
Message 8 of 9 (786 Views)

Re: Modeling Gas Network - Constant Cover Pipe Rules

11-13-2012 09:21 AM in reply to: Neilw

Thanks.

I haven't made the transition to 2013 yet.  It tends to crash my project more that 2012 currenty does.

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BrianHailey
Posts: 2,790
Registered: ‎04-27-2005
Message 9 of 9 (772 Views)

Re: Modeling Gas Network - Constant Cover Pipe Rules

11-13-2012 11:47 AM in reply to: civ_engineer

http://civil3dplus.wordpress.com/2011/07/26/water-line-best-practices/

 

It's for water lines but should work well for any pressure system. I created this video to assist people that purchased our pipe network catalog so some of the instructions are specific for that but overall, it will help anyone doing pressure systems using the Pipe Network tools in Civil 3D.

Brian Hailey
CAD-1.com
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