Linking BIM and GIS through Civil 3D and Map 3D

[niallmiz1]

Hi all,

This is a general query regarding an academic study, ideally leading to its application in the workplace. All comments and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I am conducting a dissertation in to how to properly apply BIM to the Transport Infrastructure industry. I would like to propose ideas for how information models of infrastructure schemes (BIMs) created in Civil 3D may be linked with GIS software (Map 3D?). To this aim, I am discussing the ideal of having an intelligent 'data map' which Local Authorities (LA) build up which not only displays typcial GIS data such as traffic counts, bus stops, population size, accidents etc, but also contains information models of historic transport schemes. All separated in to layers of course. The benefits of this would be a prospective developer would approach the LA with an outline scheme, the LA could then input the location of the proposed scheme in the 'data map' and not only look at all the beforementioned typcial GIS data, but have access to BIMs from schemes completed in the vicinity (1-2, 3-5, 6-10 years ago). This way, I propose the planning approval process would be more efficient and consistent, with all relevant information accessible in one place. Furthermore, additional benefits such as more accurate STATS/existing services information could slowly be built up through collating trial hole results and ground surveys from these BIMs.

Please note, I'm aware the training required for people to use these models will take a considerbale time, and the size of the server which holds the 'data map' would be massive! But with advancements in tech this could be achievable in the next few years?

I would like to ask the professional Autodesk community, do you think there is merit in the idea? I've seen a few online articles that discuss similar ideas to mine, linking BIM and GIS, but has anyone seen this applied in practice before? I am proficient in Civil 3D, however as a civil engineer my knowledge of Map 3D and other GIS enabled software is fairly limited so any suggestions on software choice would be appreciated also. Don't hold back with any ciriticism either!

Thank you in advance,

Niall

[Murph_Map]

It's all doable and has been done before. There were even 4D databases or apps out there. The 4D being time, past, present, futures. The biggest hurdle is getting funding to build and operate a site for this. When governments (local and state) are trying to get money to just repave roads and repair bridges not many can spend thousands of dollars on a project like this with little ROI. 

[wfberry]

Niall:

I personally to do not know anyone associated with this forum that has the knowledge of Map 3D that Murph has, plus his knowledge of Civil 3D.  So I am thinking that all I could offer is an AMEN to Murph's comments.

Bill

[niallmiz1]

Murph, Bill, thanks for your replies! 

I will set about researching past/current examples of 4D BIM/GIS initiatives, if you have any particularly good examples to hand that would be great.

Cheers,

Niall

[Murph_Map]

Here is an old paper on it http://www.fig.net/pub/athens/papers/ts20/TS20_1_Celik_et_al.pdf

The only thing I know is Oracle was working on a 4th dimension database years ago and so was ESRI, but I haven't seen any news in the past year on either one being close to putting out a product to the public. 

[Neilw_05]

Could you elaborate a bit more on what BIM attributes you are wanting to draw from Civil 3D? I will say that I don't think you will be able to integrate C3D objects into your GIS directly since C3D objects are not supported in GIS applications, including Map. There will have to be a translation process involved regardless of which GIS technology you use. Thus Map may not be the best choice for building a robust GIS application.

[Murph_Map]

---

@Neilw wrote:

Could you elaborate a bit more on what BIM attributes you are wanting to draw from Civil 3D? I will say that I don't think you will be able to integrate C3D objects into your GIS directly since C3D objects are not supported in GIS applications, including Map. There will have to be a translation process involved regardless of which GIS technology you use. Thus Map may not be the best choice for building a robust GIS application.

---

Agree to a point, there's always the Export to SDF to get "limited: C3D objects to Map3D. Yes to get the robust GIS it requires more than Map3D. 

[niallmiz1]

Thanks Neil and murph, again!

The BIM attributes I was hoping to extract were, for example;
road construction (all surface and base course depths, SMA or HRA etc)
kerbs (type, manufacturer, foundation type)
fencing (both pedestrian and vehicle restraint) type and manufacturer, strength, footings
Gullies (chamber strength, manufacturer)

Basically anything that will aid future developers working in the vicinity, reducing the amount of unnecessary site investigation and file collecting. I'm not sure if it is possible to go in to the detail above in Civil 3D yet. I know, mainly for architects, there is a National BIM Library where a variety of manufacturers are producing Revit objects and IFCs of their products to include directly in to Revit models. I can't see the same is being done for Civil 3D?

Thanks,
Niall

[Neilw_05]

Map cannot extract those type of attributes from Civil 3D objects, nor do Civil 3D objects support all of those attributes. Ultimately you are going to have to convert the C3D objects to a format that GIS apps support and then manually apply the attribute data you need for your application.

[MikeEvansUK · Accepted solution]

What you can do is attach map object data tables to Civil3d entities but you are unable to export the data attached to the objects (out of the box).

What you want to do can to some extents be achieved by creating custom applications using VB.net. See attached exporrted files for info.

I got fed up with Civil3d not exporting the data to map in it's entirety so I decided to create an application to export all the data myself.

The application uses several stages to generate the information.

First obtain pipe / structure contexts and tabulate.

create Object data tables.

For each structure & pipe one by one.

populate data table entries, explode to 2d objects (lines and blocks) and obtain resultant object handle

Using the resultant obj handle add the data table.

This will work for some entities so long as they are 2d polylines or points / blocks. etc. it's a heck of a workaround. It will not work with resultant 3d entities.

Hope this helps.

Mike