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Large surface

16 REPLIES 16
Reply
Message 1 of 17
Anonymous
361 Views, 16 Replies

Large surface

I have a l00 ac. aerial that keeps crashing when I export to landxml. Is
this too large for this?

--
John Mayo
Project Engineer
Conklin Associates
Ramsey, NJ

Civil 3D 2007, LDT 2007, Raster Design 2007
P-IV at 3.5 GHz
2 GB Ram
Nvidea Quadro FX w/ 128 MB Ram
16 REPLIES 16
Message 2 of 17
tcorey
in reply to: Anonymous

John, be sure nothing else is running on your system when you try this. No Outlook, etc. Real-time file scanners (virus protection) can also cause issues. You might want to disable anything like that and try again.

I don't know, but it might be that setting an exterior boundary that is smaller than the full site will limit the data being written to the xml file. You could make a very small boundary and try that. If it works, you could then expand the boundary closer and closer to the actual edge of your project until you find your limit.

Best regards,

Tim Corey
Delta Engineering Systems
Redding, CA


Tim Corey
MicroCAD Training and Consulting, Inc.
Redding, CA
Autodesk Gold Reseller

New knowledge is the most valuable commodity on earth. -- Kurt Vonnegut
Message 3 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Thanks Tim. It actually finished in a little over an hour and a half.
Yesterday I was trying to send email, use our database & revise a plan in
LDT while I was writing the xml. 😮

If those of you who work with large surfaces could let me know at which
point you start breaking large surfaces up into components I would still
appreciate the info.



--
John Mayo
Project Engineer
Conklin Associates
Ramsey, NJ

Civil 3D 2007, LDT 2007, Raster Design 2007
P-IV at 3.5 GHz
2 GB Ram
Nvidea Quadro FX w/ 128 MB Ram
wrote in message news:5565438@discussion.autodesk.com...
John, be sure nothing else is running on your system when you try this. No
Outlook, etc. Real-time file scanners (virus protection) can also cause
issues. You might want to disable anything like that and try again.

I don't know, but it might be that setting an exterior boundary that is
smaller than the full site will limit the data being written to the xml
file. You could make a very small boundary and try that. If it works, you
could then expand the boundary closer and closer to the actual edge of your
project until you find your limit.

Best regards,

Tim Corey
Delta Engineering Systems
Redding, CA
Message 4 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I've run a surface of well over 1,000 acres from aerial topo. Not speedy,
but not that bad, either (that was 2006, by the way, too).

One question I should ask, first, though: Did you build the surface from
breakline/point data or from contours?

"John Mayo" wrote in message
news:5565464@discussion.autodesk.com...

If those of you who work with large surfaces could let me know at which
point you start breaking large surfaces up into components I would still
appreciate the info.
Message 5 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Wow in 1000 ac's in 06! I should have few issues. Thanks Tom.
--
John Mayo
Project Engineer
Conklin Associates
Ramsey, NJ

Civil 3D 2007, LDT 2007, Raster Design 2007
P-IV at 3.5 GHz
2 GB Ram
Nvidea Quadro FX w/ 128 MB Ram
"TomD" wrote in message
news:5565478@discussion.autodesk.com...
I've run a surface of well over 1,000 acres from aerial topo. Not speedy,
but not that bad, either (that was 2006, by the way, too).

One question I should ask, first, though: Did you build the surface from
breakline/point data or from contours?

"John Mayo" wrote in message
news:5565464@discussion.autodesk.com...

If those of you who work with large surfaces could let me know at which
point you start breaking large surfaces up into components I would still
appreciate the info.
Message 6 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Run in LDT or exported to LandXML? LandXML is horribly slow writing large
surfaces in my experience.

Allen

"TomD" wrote in message
news:5565478@discussion.autodesk.com...
I've run a surface of well over 1,000 acres from aerial topo. Not speedy,
but not that bad, either (that was 2006, by the way, too).

One question I should ask, first, though: Did you build the surface from
breakline/point data or from contours?

"John Mayo" wrote in message
news:5565464@discussion.autodesk.com...

If those of you who work with large surfaces could let me know at which
point you start breaking large surfaces up into components I would still
appreciate the info.
Message 7 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Thanks for the confirmation Allen. Have you kept your large surfaces as one
also?

--
John Mayo
Project Engineer
Conklin Associates
Ramsey, NJ

Civil 3D 2007, LDT 2007, Raster Design 2007
P-IV at 3.5 GHz
2 GB Ram
Nvidea Quadro FX w/ 128 MB Ram
"Allen Jessup" wrote in message
news:5565703@discussion.autodesk.com...
Run in LDT or exported to LandXML? LandXML is horribly slow writing large
surfaces in my experience.

Allen

"TomD" wrote in message
news:5565478@discussion.autodesk.com...
I've run a surface of well over 1,000 acres from aerial topo. Not speedy,
but not that bad, either (that was 2006, by the way, too).

One question I should ask, first, though: Did you build the surface from
breakline/point data or from contours?

"John Mayo" wrote in message
news:5565464@discussion.autodesk.com...

If those of you who work with large surfaces could let me know at which
point you start breaking large surfaces up into components I would still
appreciate the info.
Message 8 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I probably should add a little clarification, John.

I did break up the surface for detailed work in small sections, however I
also had to keep the full surface together for full site volume calcs.
(This project is a long term impoundment, not a commercial/residential
development.)

For graphics, I had an XRef containing polyline contours, which helped the
performance, I think, too.

Bottom line for me: It was a net gain.

"John Mayo" wrote in message
news:5565504@discussion.autodesk.com...
Wow in 1000 ac's in 06! I should have few issues. Thanks Tom.
--
John Mayo
Project Engineer
Conklin Associates
Ramsey, NJ

Civil 3D 2007, LDT 2007, Raster Design 2007
P-IV at 3.5 GHz
2 GB Ram
Nvidea Quadro FX w/ 128 MB Ram
"TomD" wrote in message
news:5565478@discussion.autodesk.com...
I've run a surface of well over 1,000 acres from aerial topo. Not speedy,
but not that bad, either (that was 2006, by the way, too).

One question I should ask, first, though: Did you build the surface from
breakline/point data or from contours?

"John Mayo" wrote in message
news:5565464@discussion.autodesk.com...

If those of you who work with large surfaces could let me know at which
point you start breaking large surfaces up into components I would still
appreciate the info.
Message 9 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I always make sure to save the LandXML file locally then copy it up to the
server. Its almost instantaneous that way vs go eat a meal if I'm saving
right to the server.

Shawn
Message 10 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I don't often have them that big. I had to do a comparison of elevations
from aerial work in 2 different datums for a portion of our county. I tried
to use LandXML to accomplish the vertical conversion but didn't succeed. I
ended up outputting all the points to CorpsCon and converting there.

Allen

"John Mayo" wrote in message
news:5565716@discussion.autodesk.com...
Thanks for the confirmation Allen. Have you kept your large surfaces as one
also?

--
John Mayo
Project Engineer
Conklin Associates
Ramsey, NJ

Civil 3D 2007, LDT 2007, Raster Design 2007
P-IV at 3.5 GHz
2 GB Ram
Nvidea Quadro FX w/ 128 MB Ram
"Allen Jessup" wrote in message
news:5565703@discussion.autodesk.com...
Run in LDT or exported to LandXML? LandXML is horribly slow writing large
surfaces in my experience.

Allen

"TomD" wrote in message
news:5565478@discussion.autodesk.com...
I've run a surface of well over 1,000 acres from aerial topo. Not speedy,
but not that bad, either (that was 2006, by the way, too).

One question I should ask, first, though: Did you build the surface from
breakline/point data or from contours?

"John Mayo" wrote in message
news:5565464@discussion.autodesk.com...

If those of you who work with large surfaces could let me know at which
point you start breaking large surfaces up into components I would still
appreciate the info.
Message 11 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Thank-you all. The knowledge & experience is always appreciated.

--
John Mayo
Project Engineer
Conklin Associates
Ramsey, NJ

Civil 3D 2007, LDT 2007, Raster Design 2007
P-IV at 3.5 GHz
2 GB Ram
Nvidea Quadro FX w/ 128 MB Ram
"Allen Jessup" wrote in message
news:5565860@discussion.autodesk.com...
I don't often have them that big. I had to do a comparison of elevations
from aerial work in 2 different datums for a portion of our county. I tried
to use LandXML to accomplish the vertical conversion but didn't succeed. I
ended up outputting all the points to CorpsCon and converting there.

Allen

"John Mayo" wrote in message
news:5565716@discussion.autodesk.com...
Thanks for the confirmation Allen. Have you kept your large surfaces as one
also?

--
John Mayo
Project Engineer
Conklin Associates
Ramsey, NJ

Civil 3D 2007, LDT 2007, Raster Design 2007
P-IV at 3.5 GHz
2 GB Ram
Nvidea Quadro FX w/ 128 MB Ram
"Allen Jessup" wrote in message
news:5565703@discussion.autodesk.com...
Run in LDT or exported to LandXML? LandXML is horribly slow writing large
surfaces in my experience.

Allen

"TomD" wrote in message
news:5565478@discussion.autodesk.com...
I've run a surface of well over 1,000 acres from aerial topo. Not speedy,
but not that bad, either (that was 2006, by the way, too).

One question I should ask, first, though: Did you build the surface from
breakline/point data or from contours?

"John Mayo" wrote in message
news:5565464@discussion.autodesk.com...

If those of you who work with large surfaces could let me know at which
point you start breaking large surfaces up into components I would still
appreciate the info.
Message 12 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Hi John,

How many triangles are there in your surface?

The actual extent of the surface is not a measure of its size and
workability.

A few months ago I built a surface with an area roughly matching that of the
surface of the moon. Everything associated with it worked lightning fast
because it only had a small data content.


--

Laurie Comerford
CADApps
www.cadapps.com.au
www.civil3Dtools.com
"John Mayo" wrote in message
news:5565999@discussion.autodesk.com...
Thank-you all. The knowledge & experience is always appreciated.

--
John Mayo
Project Engineer
Conklin Associates
Ramsey, NJ

Civil 3D 2007, LDT 2007, Raster Design 2007
P-IV at 3.5 GHz
2 GB Ram
Nvidea Quadro FX w/ 128 MB Ram
"Allen Jessup" wrote in message
news:5565860@discussion.autodesk.com...
I don't often have them that big. I had to do a comparison of elevations
from aerial work in 2 different datums for a portion of our county. I tried
to use LandXML to accomplish the vertical conversion but didn't succeed. I
ended up outputting all the points to CorpsCon and converting there.

Allen

"John Mayo" wrote in message
news:5565716@discussion.autodesk.com...
Thanks for the confirmation Allen. Have you kept your large surfaces as one
also?

--
John Mayo
Project Engineer
Conklin Associates
Ramsey, NJ

Civil 3D 2007, LDT 2007, Raster Design 2007
P-IV at 3.5 GHz
2 GB Ram
Nvidea Quadro FX w/ 128 MB Ram
"Allen Jessup" wrote in message
news:5565703@discussion.autodesk.com...
Run in LDT or exported to LandXML? LandXML is horribly slow writing large
surfaces in my experience.

Allen

"TomD" wrote in message
news:5565478@discussion.autodesk.com...
I've run a surface of well over 1,000 acres from aerial topo. Not speedy,
but not that bad, either (that was 2006, by the way, too).

One question I should ask, first, though: Did you build the surface from
breakline/point data or from contours?

"John Mayo" wrote in message
news:5565464@discussion.autodesk.com...

If those of you who work with large surfaces could let me know at which
point you start breaking large surfaces up into components I would still
appreciate the info.
Message 13 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Hello Lauire,

Thanks for responding.

The surface has 320,000 triangles & 94,000 points in about 100 ac. I get
your drift here, it's data density not area. The performance is slow but not
unmanagable & since 08 came in the mail today this may not even be an issue
but I'd like some sort of a benchmark for this & future jobs.

The aerial data we get isn't the cleanest in terms of the number of
verticies used but we prefer to use the data as it was sent. Mapcleanups &
overkill either take hours or just crash so it's not even worth it. I am
just beginning this project on a very steep mountain. I am probably going to
keep one surface since we will disturb very little of it & I know the FG
model will be very small in comparison, but...

what if I was going to have a larger FG? How would it be with 2 tins that
large? We did a 300+ ac. site in software called Hasp in the 80's & we broke
the tin into componets for each phase of the subdivision as I have heard
many firms do. Again I think I know where I am going with this one. I'm
trying to get ready for the next fly over. They're getting cheaper.

Thank again,

John Mayo





"Laurie Comerford" wrote in message
news:5566038@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hi John,

How many triangles are there in your surface?

The actual extent of the surface is not a measure of its size and
workability.

A few months ago I built a surface with an area roughly matching that of the
surface of the moon. Everything associated with it worked lightning fast
because it only had a small data content.


--

Laurie Comerford
CADApps
www.cadapps.com.au
www.civil3Dtools.com
"John Mayo" wrote in message
news:5565999@discussion.autodesk.com...
Thank-you all. The knowledge & experience is always appreciated.

--
John Mayo
Project Engineer
Conklin Associates
Ramsey, NJ

Civil 3D 2007, LDT 2007, Raster Design 2007
P-IV at 3.5 GHz
2 GB Ram
Nvidea Quadro FX w/ 128 MB Ram
"Allen Jessup" wrote in message
news:5565860@discussion.autodesk.com...
I don't often have them that big. I had to do a comparison of elevations
from aerial work in 2 different datums for a portion of our county. I tried
to use LandXML to accomplish the vertical conversion but didn't succeed. I
ended up outputting all the points to CorpsCon and converting there.

Allen

"John Mayo" wrote in message
news:5565716@discussion.autodesk.com...
Thanks for the confirmation Allen. Have you kept your large surfaces as one
also?

--
John Mayo
Project Engineer
Conklin Associates
Ramsey, NJ

Civil 3D 2007, LDT 2007, Raster Design 2007
P-IV at 3.5 GHz
2 GB Ram
Nvidea Quadro FX w/ 128 MB Ram
"Allen Jessup" wrote in message
news:5565703@discussion.autodesk.com...
Run in LDT or exported to LandXML? LandXML is horribly slow writing large
surfaces in my experience.

Allen

"TomD" wrote in message
news:5565478@discussion.autodesk.com...
I've run a surface of well over 1,000 acres from aerial topo. Not speedy,
but not that bad, either (that was 2006, by the way, too).

One question I should ask, first, though: Did you build the surface from
breakline/point data or from contours?

"John Mayo" wrote in message
news:5565464@discussion.autodesk.com...

If those of you who work with large surfaces could let me know at which
point you start breaking large surfaces up into components I would still
appreciate the info.
Message 14 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Hi,

In terms of cleaning up the data, the best way is to create a new blank
drawing using Map only.

Query out the data from the big drawing by area, such that each area
contains a reasonable number of items and do the cleanup on that. Use save
back to save back the changes you've made.

Erase the remaining data and remove that erasure from the Save back set.

Query another area and repeat till you covered the whole data set in the
main drawing. Although it involves a bit of tedious work by hand, you will
see the long term benefits of the clean up.

--

Regards,


Laurie Comerford
CADApps Australia
www.cadapps.com.au
www.civil3Dtools.com
"Abyss" wrote in message
news:5566316@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hello Lauire,

Thanks for responding.

The surface has 320,000 triangles & 94,000 points in about 100 ac. I get
your drift here, it's data density not area. The performance is slow but not
unmanagable & since 08 came in the mail today this may not even be an issue
but I'd like some sort of a benchmark for this & future jobs.

The aerial data we get isn't the cleanest in terms of the number of
verticies used but we prefer to use the data as it was sent. Mapcleanups &
overkill either take hours or just crash so it's not even worth it. I am
just beginning this project on a very steep mountain. I am probably going to
keep one surface since we will disturb very little of it & I know the FG
model will be very small in comparison, but...

what if I was going to have a larger FG? How would it be with 2 tins that
large? We did a 300+ ac. site in software called Hasp in the 80's & we broke
the tin into componets for each phase of the subdivision as I have heard
many firms do. Again I think I know where I am going with this one. I'm
trying to get ready for the next fly over. They're getting cheaper.

Thank again,

John Mayo





"Laurie Comerford" wrote in message
news:5566038@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hi John,

How many triangles are there in your surface?

The actual extent of the surface is not a measure of its size and
workability.

A few months ago I built a surface with an area roughly matching that of the
surface of the moon. Everything associated with it worked lightning fast
because it only had a small data content.


--

Laurie Comerford
CADApps
www.cadapps.com.au
www.civil3Dtools.com
"John Mayo" wrote in message
news:5565999@discussion.autodesk.com...
Thank-you all. The knowledge & experience is always appreciated.

--
John Mayo
Project Engineer
Conklin Associates
Ramsey, NJ

Civil 3D 2007, LDT 2007, Raster Design 2007
P-IV at 3.5 GHz
2 GB Ram
Nvidea Quadro FX w/ 128 MB Ram
"Allen Jessup" wrote in message
news:5565860@discussion.autodesk.com...
I don't often have them that big. I had to do a comparison of elevations
from aerial work in 2 different datums for a portion of our county. I tried
to use LandXML to accomplish the vertical conversion but didn't succeed. I
ended up outputting all the points to CorpsCon and converting there.

Allen

"John Mayo" wrote in message
news:5565716@discussion.autodesk.com...
Thanks for the confirmation Allen. Have you kept your large surfaces as one
also?

--
John Mayo
Project Engineer
Conklin Associates
Ramsey, NJ

Civil 3D 2007, LDT 2007, Raster Design 2007
P-IV at 3.5 GHz
2 GB Ram
Nvidea Quadro FX w/ 128 MB Ram
"Allen Jessup" wrote in message
news:5565703@discussion.autodesk.com...
Run in LDT or exported to LandXML? LandXML is horribly slow writing large
surfaces in my experience.

Allen

"TomD" wrote in message
news:5565478@discussion.autodesk.com...
I've run a surface of well over 1,000 acres from aerial topo. Not speedy,
but not that bad, either (that was 2006, by the way, too).

One question I should ask, first, though: Did you build the surface from
breakline/point data or from contours?

"John Mayo" wrote in message
news:5565464@discussion.autodesk.com...

If those of you who work with large surfaces could let me know at which
point you start breaking large surfaces up into components I would still
appreciate the info.
Message 15 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

I typically do use Map & limit the selection set but I have never used a
Query & Save Back. I absolutely will give it a shot.


--
John Mayo
Project Engineer
Conklin Associates
Ramsey, NJ

Civil 3D 2007, LDT 2007, Raster Design 2007
P-IV at 3.5 GHz
2 GB Ram
Nvidea Quadro FX w/ 128 MB Ram
"Laurie Comerford" wrote in message
news:5566350@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hi,

In terms of cleaning up the data, the best way is to create a new blank
drawing using Map only.

Query out the data from the big drawing by area, such that each area
contains a reasonable number of items and do the cleanup on that. Use save
back to save back the changes you've made.

Erase the remaining data and remove that erasure from the Save back set.

Query another area and repeat till you covered the whole data set in the
main drawing. Although it involves a bit of tedious work by hand, you will
see the long term benefits of the clean up.

--

Regards,


Laurie Comerford
CADApps Australia
www.cadapps.com.au
www.civil3Dtools.com
"Abyss" wrote in message
news:5566316@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hello Lauire,

Thanks for responding.

The surface has 320,000 triangles & 94,000 points in about 100 ac. I get
your drift here, it's data density not area. The performance is slow but not
unmanagable & since 08 came in the mail today this may not even be an issue
but I'd like some sort of a benchmark for this & future jobs.

The aerial data we get isn't the cleanest in terms of the number of
verticies used but we prefer to use the data as it was sent. Mapcleanups &
overkill either take hours or just crash so it's not even worth it. I am
just beginning this project on a very steep mountain. I am probably going to
keep one surface since we will disturb very little of it & I know the FG
model will be very small in comparison, but...

what if I was going to have a larger FG? How would it be with 2 tins that
large? We did a 300+ ac. site in software called Hasp in the 80's & we broke
the tin into componets for each phase of the subdivision as I have heard
many firms do. Again I think I know where I am going with this one. I'm
trying to get ready for the next fly over. They're getting cheaper.

Thank again,

John Mayo





"Laurie Comerford" wrote in message
news:5566038@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hi John,

How many triangles are there in your surface?

The actual extent of the surface is not a measure of its size and
workability.

A few months ago I built a surface with an area roughly matching that of the
surface of the moon. Everything associated with it worked lightning fast
because it only had a small data content.


--

Laurie Comerford
CADApps
www.cadapps.com.au
www.civil3Dtools.com
"John Mayo" wrote in message
news:5565999@discussion.autodesk.com...
Thank-you all. The knowledge & experience is always appreciated.

--
John Mayo
Project Engineer
Conklin Associates
Ramsey, NJ

Civil 3D 2007, LDT 2007, Raster Design 2007
P-IV at 3.5 GHz
2 GB Ram
Nvidea Quadro FX w/ 128 MB Ram
"Allen Jessup" wrote in message
news:5565860@discussion.autodesk.com...
I don't often have them that big. I had to do a comparison of elevations
from aerial work in 2 different datums for a portion of our county. I tried
to use LandXML to accomplish the vertical conversion but didn't succeed. I
ended up outputting all the points to CorpsCon and converting there.

Allen

"John Mayo" wrote in message
news:5565716@discussion.autodesk.com...
Thanks for the confirmation Allen. Have you kept your large surfaces as one
also?

--
John Mayo
Project Engineer
Conklin Associates
Ramsey, NJ

Civil 3D 2007, LDT 2007, Raster Design 2007
P-IV at 3.5 GHz
2 GB Ram
Nvidea Quadro FX w/ 128 MB Ram
"Allen Jessup" wrote in message
news:5565703@discussion.autodesk.com...
Run in LDT or exported to LandXML? LandXML is horribly slow writing large
surfaces in my experience.

Allen

"TomD" wrote in message
news:5565478@discussion.autodesk.com...
I've run a surface of well over 1,000 acres from aerial topo. Not speedy,
but not that bad, either (that was 2006, by the way, too).

One question I should ask, first, though: Did you build the surface from
breakline/point data or from contours?

"John Mayo" wrote in message
news:5565464@discussion.autodesk.com...

If those of you who work with large surfaces could let me know at which
point you start breaking large surfaces up into components I would still
appreciate the info.
Message 16 of 17
dana.probert
in reply to: Anonymous

While you will see marked performance improvements in 2008, large surfaces are still not something that Civil 3D is designed to handle. I'll spend some time with you on it when I am up there, John.

There are a few tricks using map tools that might help, and some accuracy/precision things to talk about.
Dana Probert, P.E.
Technical Marketing Manager, Civil Engineering
Autodesk
Blog: BIM on the Rocks
Learn More About BIM for Infrastructure
Message 17 of 17
Anonymous
in reply to: Anonymous

Thanks. Ready, willing, somewhat able.

--
John Mayo
Project Engineer
Conklin Associates
Ramsey, NJ

Civil 3D 2007, LDT 2007, Raster Design 2007
P-IV at 3.5 GHz
2 GB Ram
Nvidea Quadro FX w/ 128 MB Ram
wrote in message
news:5566985@discussion.autodesk.com...
While you will see marked performance improvements in 2008, large surfaces
are still not something that Civil 3D is designed to handle. I'll spend
some time with you on it when I am up there, John.

There are a few tricks using map tools that might help, and some
accuracy/precision things to talk about.

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