How would you handle low Acad expectations?

[deltacoolguy]

I know this isn’t a technical question, but I’m struggling with how to handle this and would like some feedback.

An engineer in my office and I, who for the most part get along great, have one major difference of opinion. I want to use AutoCAD to most of it’s dynamic ability, and he wants me to treat it as a dumb line-drawing tool.

He’s not a luddite, or ignorant. He’s not old, so it’s not like he’s from a different era. He knows how to use C3D. He knows how to model and such. But, he’s also of the “budget budget budget, time time time, deadline deadline deadline” mindset because he believes that just drawing static lines and adding static labels is faster, and hence more efficient. He has made comments like, "The project still gets built and nobody besides you cares."  I also often get questions like, “Why are you modeling that?” (He does value some modeling, but generally only as an exception.)

We have gone back and forth on this, and I am at a loss. I get budgets and time and deadlines, but I also see value in modeling and dynamic entities, especially in the long-term sense when the inevitable tweaks and changes occur.

FWIW, I don’t model absolutely everything, there are times and things where some dumb linework is just fine.

How would you handle such a situation?

[MarkPendergraft]

Modeling benefits you because it allows you to dimension and label your pipe networks, surfaces, etc. and have them match your drawing exactly and update automatically.  I'm sure you have made that argument to him already though.  Modeling also benefits other end users and therefore your clients.  As a surveyor, I can assure you that having a complete Civil 3D model, which the plans are labeled off of, speeds up calc time for us A LOT.  When you have a complete model, you can automatically calculate points off of corridors and surfaces and then just quickly check them to the plans rather than doing the math long hand.  Paper plans are no longer the only deliverable for an engineering firm and if your firm doesn't see the value of delivering accurate digital files in addition to paper plans, then I would be concerned about your company's relevance in the marketplace in the future.

I have worked with engineering files that were drawn completely on layer 0, with no modeling, and not only did I find mistakes that were easily preventable with modeling, but it took twice as long to calculate the site.  Modeling allows you to upsell your client on a service that provides them with a better product, which will benefit not only them, but other users of the plans.

Just my 2 cents.

-Mark P.

[jeff_rivers]

The benefit to modeling is not just in time saving, the benefit is a big increase in quality control. With dynamic labeling, when you change the models the labels update automatically. Yes, that saves you the time it would have taken to manually update them, but more importantly it dramatically reduces the chance for errors.

Ask your co-worker how he calculates the information in his labels. Another couple of questions would be where are his calculations, and how can they be easily checked by a third party.

If he is calculating labels by hand the odds of him accidentally skipping a label, transposing a digit, or miscalculating something are very real. With dynamic labels and a correctly-made model every label will always be correct no matter how many times the model is revised.

Consider making a critical change right before a final deadline, when staff is under a lot of pressure to get it done on time. When stress is high people make mistakes. What's the risk of someone mistyping a label or mis-keying a calculation? How will your company's reputation suffer? Why not trust the software to do all the grunt work for you in that case?

There's the power of C3D. Using it the way it was intended to be used will increase the quality of your work. It may take more time to properly set up a model, and mistakes in the model can be difficult to find, but it eliminates a whole host of human errors by preventing them from creeping into the drawing. To me the time savings is a side effect, the real improvement is in the quality of the work.

[Joe-Bouza]

REVISIONS

REVIVIONS

REVISIONS....

In the words of Stan Lee "Nuff said"

[idmadcadder]

I guess my first question is...are you an engineer too, or a CAD tech working with the engineer?  If the later...then the engineer will most likely always trump you in your opinion since they are working with the client, and make the decisions.  Sounds like an unfavorable workplace.  It's easy to point out all the benefits of C3D, but it sounds like you already know them and they don't need to be all listed out again.

Every place has different workflows...sounds like unless something drastic happens, yours will stay the same, besides things already mentioned it's always holding you back from any forward growth.  Unless you can get out...I guess it's just going to keep sucking on your end of the spectrum.

[AllenJessup]

A friend of mine is at AU so he may not be on the forum much. So I'll try to tell the strongly he uses to make the point.

They had an extensive project done pre-Civil 3D. At almost the last minute they had to make a datum change. Since almost all of the drawing was dumb, most particularly the labels, it took almost a week to redo the drawings. Maybe they missed a label and it was not incorrect. A few years ago they had the same situation but this time the project was in Civil 3D. I took him less than a day to get the whole project in the new datum and since all the label were dynamic they were all correct.

Allen

[fcernst]

What Civil 3D tasks are taking too long? You may want to reassess your workflow.

Spend some personal time at night or on the weekends setting up styles, templates, Assemblies, Subassemblies, etc. that you can have at the ready and quickly implement. This will help enable you to continue to enjoy using Civil 3D in the workplace.

Don't keep telling him how your getting the work done. Just get it done on time.

[doni49]

Have a look at this thread.

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/autocad-civil-3d-general/takes-too-long-to-design-in-civil3d/td-p/5033...

And in particular this particular message within that thread.

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/autocad-civil-3d-general/takes-too-long-to-design-in-civil3d/m-p/50348...

[deltacoolguy]

I apologize to everyone for not getting back to this sooner.  I did read all the responses originally, and just now again.

Many of the points you have made are points I have made in discussions, but he remains unswayed.  Fortunately, there are others in the office, including the branch manager, who see value in C3D design, so all is not lost.

I will add more to this thread, if necessary.  Thank you all for your time and help.  It is greatly appreciated.

[annw2]

When 3d came up with the export pipe networks directly to Stormsewer, that was the bang on the bosse's door and DEMAND an upgrade.  With large projects  of several pipes, it took days to determine that line 1 was pipe A6, etc.

The pipe profiles and automatic pipe networks run a fraction of the time in 3d.

How would he know what you are using unless he is opening the CAD files?