Community
Civil 3D Forum
Welcome to Autodesk’s Civil 3D Forums. Share your knowledge, ask questions, and explore popular AutoCAD Civil 3D topics.
cancel
Showing results for 
Show  only  | Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

How to deal with visibility point label styles thru an X-ref

26 REPLIES 26
Reply
Message 1 of 27
grafp
3212 Views, 26 Replies

How to deal with visibility point label styles thru an X-ref

When we create Civil plans for our projects we always keep separate model files for the survey, demolition plan, site plan, utility plan , & grading plan, etc. When then X-Ref these drawings together in various combinations together to create our sheets (layouts). I assume most civil engineering firms follow this practice.

 

When don't have a survey department, so our topographic survey drawings come from various companies. Lately we have been receiving survey files created with Civil 3D. Most all the time the survey point symbols and the label styles are on the same layer. When we reference the survey files in our various sheets we do not have the ability to "turn off" the point labels as needed.

 

I have searched this group trying to find solution to this problem. Most of the replies talk about using point groups and a label styles to control visibility. How can this be done when the drawing files are X-Referenced? Plus, other disciplines are X-Referencing the Survey files as well, and only have plain AutoCad with the Object-Enabler loaded.  On top of all this, most of the survey point symbols are blocks that have a color assigned to them, preventing them to be "gray scaled" in thru the X-Reference.

 

The only way I have resolved these problems are to redefine the blocks and label styles within the Survey file. Unless I am missing something on how Civil 3D works, I guess I need to make sure the surveying firm creates the point & labels styles on separate layers and define the all block colors to either "bylayer" or "byblock"?

 

Paul

C3d 2010

P. Graf
C3D 2009 & 2010
Windows XP
3 GB ram
intel Core 2 Duo
ATI Radeon HD 2400 Pro
26 REPLIES 26
Message 2 of 27
ralstogj
in reply to: grafp

Hi

 

I agree with your conclusion that the style for the points in the survey drawing would have to be setup

as required to have the points and label on different layers.

 

Justin Ralston

Regards

Justin Ralston
http://c3dxtreme.blogspot.com/
Message 3 of 27
grafp
in reply to: grafp

To all the other companies out there that receive survey drawings from a consultant:

 

How do you deal with enforcing layer standards for cogo points & label styles? 

 

1. Do you specify in you contract that a drawing on how styles are defined?

 

2. Do you offer your consultant a survey drawing template file?

 

Any help on this subject would be appreciated

 

Paul

P. Graf
C3D 2009 & 2010
Windows XP
3 GB ram
intel Core 2 Duo
ATI Radeon HD 2400 Pro
Message 4 of 27
DRW_CAD
in reply to: grafp

I have all my point and point label styles set to use layer 0. The description key puts the point on various layers & then we use layers to control visibility of the actual point for the very reason you are having trouble. Point groups can be used to control visibility but not through an xref. We use point groups to control display of the points for working purposes, i.e to see them as PED rather than as a symbol. 
 
One hiccup in this method is the label goes on the same layer as the point. I have a 2nd description key in the template that has no labels assigned. The one it uses on import though has labels. So, you import points it puts symbols and labels on the points. Then you go into description key set properties, move the no label description key set to the top and you can then select one or more points, right click, apply description key to turn the point labels off. But it doesn't work through an xref so the labels are either on or off.
 
You can have the point style specify a unique layer for the label and turn it off that way but users have to know to get into the style itself and see what layer they need to turn off and then find it in the xref layer list, much more tedious than just using the Layers 2 tools to freeze xref layers in a viewport.
 
We have our own in house survey team but if I were getting surveys from other firms it would be a tough call. In a perfect world you would give them a template to use. However, the field codes, the template the figure prefix database are all linked so in order for them to use your template you would really need to get them totally on board with your way of doing things. If you can do that, it could work for you.
 
I personally think that points are unnecessarily complicated in Civil 3D, especially when design teams have to work them as a base map.

Message 5 of 27
rreid
in reply to: DRW_CAD

484iF18B85EEBC561CA6A better way to control your point label layers is to control it through the point style.

 

Make sure your point LABEL style is set to Layer 0 though.

 

Then I would suggest that you ask the surveyors to provide you with this layer.

 

I have to ask...Why are you not requiring the survey subs to use your DWT? I have routinely asked for this when being asked to submit info to a client. What format? What layer standard, etc. It may take a little coordination at first but then you should have the functionality you need.

 

Then you have your layer properties as you need them.

 

HTH

 

 

Richard W. Reid, Jr. PLS

AutoCAD - Civil 3D - Map 3D - ESRI - Google
AutoCAD Civil 3D Implementation Expert
Message 6 of 27
grafp
in reply to: rreid

Thanks for the tip. I am trying to get my company to have a better understanding of how Civil 3d works. Normally we just send the survey sub a scope of work statement telling them to follow A/E/C Cadd Standards. If we would give them a template file to use, how would respond to the point Doug_000 makes?

 

"However, the field codes, the template the figure prefix database are all linked so in order for them to use your template you would really need to get them totally on board with your way of doing things. If you can do that, it could work for you."

P. Graf
C3D 2009 & 2010
Windows XP
3 GB ram
intel Core 2 Duo
ATI Radeon HD 2400 Pro
Message 7 of 27
rreid
in reply to: grafp

Well, good question. If you are going to provide a DWT then you do have to give them EVERYTHING. It just makes sense.

The Figure Prefix DB would be in concert with your description keys, and thats assuming they are doing survey automation in the field (linework).

 

They are fairly easy to create and customize, and you would have a better understanding of what they are locating since you will know what the descriptions are.

 

There is a good reason why my clients always come back to me, thats because I give them what they want, in the format that they want. I love to work for firms who have their act together. I can be really efficient in my field work without too much hassle, and I don't get hassled because they can't figure out my descriptions.

 

HTH

Richard W. Reid, Jr. PLS

AutoCAD - Civil 3D - Map 3D - ESRI - Google
AutoCAD Civil 3D Implementation Expert
Message 8 of 27
grafp
in reply to: rreid

I am trying to fully understand what it would take to work with a survey firm. The office I work in does not have a survey crew, we just do design work., so we don't have our own description key sets, or anything to do with the survey database. So I really need to get a better understanding on how things work, before I can dictate anything to the survey sub. I'm trying hard to get my office to use C3D more, My goal is to be one of those companies with there act together, that is easy to work with.

 

Paul

P. Graf
C3D 2009 & 2010
Windows XP
3 GB ram
intel Core 2 Duo
ATI Radeon HD 2400 Pro
Message 9 of 27
Sinc
in reply to: rreid

We would find it INCREDIBLY difficult to use a DWT provided by someone else.  Our DWT has been built up over four years, and is designed to work with our field and office procedures.  The overall goal is to provide a high-quality product, with sufficient redundant checks.  The DWT is part of this, but only part.  The rest is in the suite of field and office procedures we've developed.  Attempting to use a DWT provided by a client would most likely create significant disruptions, and nullify much of our quality control.

Sinc
Message 10 of 27
rreid
in reply to: grafp

Well put and understandable.

 

However, this is exactly why communication is key. If you are going to provide a DWT and associated files, my suggestion is to reach out to your best surveyors, get their input. They may already have a lot of great stuff created which you can incorporate into your own.

 

It is surprising to find how many architect/engineer/surveyor project teams do not simply pick up the phone and ask.

 

I have spoken to these teams after dealing with a "difficult and immovable" subconsultant, and they refer to them as "those guys". When my clients discuss my work, they do not include me in with "those guys". And to be honest, I have won many a client because I came along and was willing to accomodate. I never lost a job because I was willing to give them what they want, but "those guys" did because they wouldn't!!

 

HTH

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Richard W. Reid, Jr. PLS

AutoCAD - Civil 3D - Map 3D - ESRI - Google
AutoCAD Civil 3D Implementation Expert
Message 11 of 27
omc-usnr
in reply to: grafp

In the old LDD day, I'd ask my surveyors (outside firms) for their DTM & cogo folders, as well as their drawings if they were using LDD.  II'd then use thier layering structure for the points and surfaces as best I sould.  f they were not using LDD, I'd ask for an ascii point dump, and make sure their drawing had their breaklines.  I'd then import their points, using my own desckeys to layer points the way I wanted them.

 

With C3d, it's a new game, and some surveyors are using it and other not.  I'd almost perfer not, if they are new to it.  Guys like Sinc & Reid have used it enough to know how to get usable base maps, but a newby can really get lost with all the styles.  If I get data in the form of an ascii file & breaklines, at least I can set the styles I like to usem and am comfortable with.

 

Reid

Message 12 of 27
rreid
in reply to: omc-usnr

This is starting to get off topic but, the big problem with that workflow is you are reproducing all that data. So you paid a surveyor to provide info that you are not using. WHY? This cuts into your profit.

 

That is the specific reason why Civil 3D has come along. The ability to start up exactly where another left off.

 

 

 

 

 

Richard W. Reid, Jr. PLS

AutoCAD - Civil 3D - Map 3D - ESRI - Google
AutoCAD Civil 3D Implementation Expert
Message 13 of 27
grafp
in reply to: rreid

I am beginning to understand that giving a template file to a sub can be difficult without a lot comminication involved. To make it work, both parties have to have a strong understanding of Civil 3d.

 

The way I see it is that many companies are only grasping some of the basic concepts of C3d at this point in time. They (or we) have just enough knowledge to get our work done, the survey team knows what they need to know, and the design team knows what they need to know.

 

This thread started cuase I need my point symbols & labels on seperate layers. Maybe I just need to tell my boss (who konws nothing of C3D) that when he issues a "scope of work" (SOW) , to a survey sub  that uses C3D that we should include in the SOW a statement that reads something like this:

 

"All Cogo Point symbols and there repective text labels must reside on seperate AutoCAD layers"

P. Graf
C3D 2009 & 2010
Windows XP
3 GB ram
intel Core 2 Duo
ATI Radeon HD 2400 Pro
Message 14 of 27
Sinc
in reply to: grafp

Yes, communication is undoubtedly the key.

 

And we're somewhat unusual, in that we've been using Civil 3D actively for almost four years now.  Most of the other companies in our area are just now starting to move from Land Desktop to Civil 3D.  So typically, we know far more about Civil 3D than the Engineer we're sending things to.

 

Our biggest problem is actually that we have to constantly send stuff to Engineers who are using old software...  Land Desktop 2008 seems to be a favorite right now.  And C3D 2009 and above isn't friendly when it comes to giving data to people using Land Desktop 2008.  We now know how to make it work, but it took a fair bit of trial-and-error, and Civil 3D doesn't give us much help, what with all the problems it has doing simple eTransmit, the "background mask problem", the fact that most people still don't know what LandXML is, etc.

Sinc
Message 15 of 27
rreid
in reply to: omc-usnr

You are using the ExportLDTData functionality as well as the Export to AutoCAD 2007? I hope?

 

This seems to work well for those wanting LDD projects.

 

Richard W. Reid, Jr. PLS

AutoCAD - Civil 3D - Map 3D - ESRI - Google
AutoCAD Civil 3D Implementation Expert
Message 16 of 27
Sinc
in reply to: rreid

 


@rreid wrote:

You are using the ExportLDTData functionality as well as the Export to AutoCAD 2007? I hope?

 

This seems to work well for those wanting LDD projects.

 


 

No.  When did they add that command?  I wasn't aware of it.

 

I'll give it a try next time.  It won't solve a lot of the other problems, but it might solve the problem I have where people seem to ignore my LandXML dumps, even when I give them explicit instructions on how to load them into Land Desktop.

Sinc
Message 17 of 27
rreid
in reply to: omc-usnr

Not sure exactly when....thinking it was snuck in 2008? It is another of those "undocumented" commands that you need to have close contact with Autodesk in order to get wind of.

 

The only thing to remember is you need to start the Import to LDD function first then cancel the command (it loads necessary dll's) then execute the ExportLDTdata command.

 

Check it out.

 

HTH

 

Richard W. Reid, Jr. PLS

AutoCAD - Civil 3D - Map 3D - ESRI - Google
AutoCAD Civil 3D Implementation Expert
Message 18 of 27
DRW_CAD
in reply to: omc-usnr

Thanks for the export to LDT command. Didn't know that one.

 

Lot of good points brought up. For what it's worth, we have a lot of clients request Land Desktop because they either don't know how to work with Civil 3D files or they are using a different flavor or version of AutoCAD and they just don't want to deal with it.

Message 19 of 27
LeafRiders
in reply to: DRW_CAD

Doug and grafp... I deal with survey from other companies, and it comes down to them either using a survey code list that you provide that matches your C3D template. Or you do the point coding yourself. Which is a way to save costs from the surveying company... Ask for just the point data,  be sure to specify Grid or Ground (separate topic). Often times the field surveyor don't care, they use what they've been using for years, and the someone in the office generally always recodes the data to match the standards in place. Really all you want is the excel or txt file. Then your survey will always match your template and your problems will go away.

 

We fortunately have a provincial / state approved survey code list to provide to our sub-consultant surveying companies. This helps with defining the "description" field of the survey points, which ultimately defines your description key settings. What point styles are used, and label styles. It is very worth the effort. I highly recommend setting all point and label styles to use layer "0" and allow the point group to define these layers. For large models using point groups to control visibility is key. Using the layer control approach is now "old school". Smiley Happy

 

I do have a problem that is similar to what the original post is about, so here it goes... 

 

My points plot at a size that is unrelated to how my Points Xref and Model scale are saved. (Smaller point view) I checked my drawing and scale settings and everything matches as you suggested. Except, I require a scale of 1:10000 for my new layout. So, my point display is completely out to lunch because the layout viewport is altering the point size, however my model space, and xref model space are all set as I require them. I need my points to display at the scale they are set at in the XREF file, not the actual viewport within an alternate drawing. Is this possible? Or does someone have any great suggestions. Thanks in advance, much appreciated.

 

The point style has 4 options for SIZE. 1) Use Drawing Scale, 2) Use Fixed Scale, 3) use size in absolute units, 4) use size relative to screen. Could someone explain the pros and cons of these or know where i can access this information.

 

My settings:

Point Style  - Everything is set to use layer "0" and "use a fixed scale" at x=1 y=1 and z=1 (for blocks and symbols) - Is this right or wrong?

 

Label Style - Everything is set to use layer "0" and text height is 2.5mm as required for 1:1000 plotting. - Maybe this is wrong, but there is no scale factor setting for the Label Styles... to my knowledge.

Message 20 of 27
DRW_CAD
in reply to: LeafRiders

Thanks for the input. This has been a while ago. Since this time, we've resolved all our point display issues, we use Carlson now for survey. Everyone's happy & we spend less time mucking around with software settings.

 

sorry in advance, I'm sure that will raise a few hackles.

Can't find what you're looking for? Ask the community or share your knowledge.

Post to forums  

Rail Community


Autodesk Design & Make Report