How are surveyors handling 3d survey figures?

[Anonymous]

My previous topic has answered ( I think) the question of how to get survey
figures to impor in 2d. One reply said to set the flatten to elevation
toggle in the figure style which I did. That person evidently gets the
figures to import in 2d. We could not replicate that process.

Another replier said that it cannot be done. The flatten figures to
elevation toggle in the figure style does not actual flatten the survey
figure and it is still imported in 3d. This process we repeatedly
replicated to my disappointment.

So, how are people handling the 3d figures? What was Autodesks intent with
this? Did they actually field test this procedure on people that actually
use the product?

So far I haven't seen any improvement AT ALL in the Survey section of
Civil3d 2010 besides some of the survey database features. Sure, there are
some nice features but the negatives are far outwaying the positives in my
experience.

[c3dlearner]

Hi,
Curious to learn more about the negatives and do you mind elaborating it with some details?

Regards,
C3DL

[Anonymous]

We create our eg surface in the same file that we import the field work
into. The figures are 3d in this file. We create a new dwg for the base map.
Import the figures, explode, convert to 2d & flatten.
--

John Mayo, PE

Win 7 64, C3D & RD 2010
Core i7 920, 6 GB DDR3
Quadro FX 1700

[stacy.dunn]

Mike,

I typically import the figures into a drawing and flatten them to 2D by creating a flat surface. I will then explode them to polylines. The reason for flattening them is that if a figure is at zero elevation the curves will be retained. I then re-import the figures marked as breaklines and explode them leaving 3d polylines that will be added to a surface. I prefer to have the breaklines in the drawing rather than in the surface only.

Bear in mind that the proceedure is not ideal, but it solves the 3d distance and linetype problems. There are programs such as SincPac 3D that will extract 2d linework directly from the figures. Until autodesk makes changes, figures seem to be more trouble than they are worth.

If you could email me a drawing I can take a look and tell you why your figures are not flattening when you change your style.

first name.last name at kimley-horn.com

thank you,
Stacy Dunn

[Anonymous]

Negatives:

The main issue is when obtaining inquiry information such as distances
between the survey figures in 3d and a right of way, parcel or easement line
the distances come out incorrectly. i.e. 2302.12 feet (3d distance) 0.43
feet (actual distance). This results in inaccurate results. The object
snap option of 'replace Z value with current elevation' works when the
initial snap point has a 0 elevation, thus limiting it's use a viable
workaround

Linetypes not displaying correctly when sites have a lot of vertical relief?

How do you determine how wide a road is when the results are in 3d? For
example, a recent inquiry on a roadway provided the following results:
Distance = 2199.0599, Angle in XY Plane = N 1d4'13" W, Angle from XY Plane
=N 0d52'25" E
Delta X = -0.6262, Delta Y = 33.5204, Delta Z = 2198.8043. The road is
not 2199.06 feet wide, nor is it 33.52 feet wide.

As of this writing I see that two other replies have came in, each one with
a multi-step (i.e. waste of time) work around for something that shouldn't
need a workaround.



wrote in message news:6378467@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hi,
Curious to learn more about the negatives and do you mind elaborating it
with some details?

Regards,
C3DL

[Anonymous]

Thanks, glad to know I'm not the only one seeing this as a serious issue.

And this is supposed to be an improvement over LDD how?

; "PE" wrote in message
news:6378520@discussion.autodesk.com...
We create our eg surface in the same file that we import the field work
into. The figures are 3d in this file. We create a new dwg for the base map.
Import the figures, explode, convert to 2d & flatten.
--

John Mayo, PE

Win 7 64, C3D & RD 2010
Core i7 920, 6 GB DDR3
Quadro FX 1700

[Anonymous]

Thanks, glad to know I'm not the only one seeing this as a serious issue. I
will send you a file to review.

And this is supposed to be an improvement over LDD how?

wrote in message news:6378522@discussion.autodesk.com...
Mike,

I typically import the figures into a drawing and flatten them to 2D by
creating a flat surface. I will then explode them to polylines. The reason
for flattening them is that if a figure is at zero elevation the curves will
be retained. I then re-import the figures marked as breaklines and explode
them leaving 3d polylines that will be added to a surface. I prefer to have
the breaklines in the drawing rather than in the surface only.

Bear in mind that the proceedure is not ideal, but it solves the 3d distance
and linetype problems. There are programs such as SincPac 3D that will
extract 2d linework directly from the figures. Until autodesk makes
changes, figures seem to be more trouble than they are worth.

If you could email me a drawing I can take a look and tell you why your
figures are not flattening when you change your style.

first name.last name at kimley-horn.com

thank you,
Stacy Dunn

[stacy.dunn]

I never said it was an improvement. Hopefully enough people will complain and things will change.

[Anonymous]

I never said it was improved but we did have to do the same thing in LDD.
Until AutoCAD can generate linetypes without being influenced by elevation,
we do what we have always done.
--

John Mayo, PE

Win 7 64, C3D & RD 2010
Core i7 920, 6 GB DDR3
Quadro FX 1700

[Sinc]

We don't have any of these problems, except for linetype generation problems (which are really annoying).

But again, third-party help comes into play. Instead of using the DIST command, we assign the PTINV command to the alias "D". Then we simply type D at the command line, and get 2D and 3D distance, along with pretty much any other information we find useful as Surveyors. One command, no Inquiry Tool to fight, very fast and easy... And since we can get BOTH a 2D and 3D distance, it's actually kind of nice having a 3D survey.

And there is also the Extract2d command, as mentioned earlier, which will extract 2D linework straight from the figures, with a bunch of options (such as create the 2D linework on different layer than the source figure, or move the source figure to a different layer while creating the 2D linework on the original layer, etc.).

There are even more tools, such as the EntityTracker. When you turn it on and hover the cursor over 3D linework, you get both the 2D and 3D length, along with an average grade along the entire length of the figure (taking into account all the vertical up/down).

The only real thing that we still find very frustrating is the (lack of) linetype generation in default entities like Survey Figures and Feature Lines. The fact that linetypes also display incorrectly when there's lots of vertical relief is pretty annoying, too, but we actually don't hit that situation very often. Usually, it's the lack of linetype generation in Survey Figures that is most frustrating. We can convert the figures to 2D easily enough, but it's annoying that we even have to worry about it.

-- Sinc
http://www.ejsurveying.com
http://www.quuxsoft.com

[Anonymous]

3rd party help to the rescue. Thanks for the heads-up. We'll definitely be
looking into your programs.

A shame autodesk had to completely mess up a previously seemless field to
surface interface which was as simple as > import proper.fbk file > create
breaklines from figures > freeze figures. This brought all of the proper
linework in the drawing at 2d while still maintaining a separate set of 3d
data in the breaklines only. Entire process took less then 10 mouse clicks.


wrote in message news:6378577@discussion.autodesk.com...
We don't have any of these problems, except for linetype generation problems
(which are really annoying). But again, third-party help comes into play.
Instead of using the DIST command, we assign the PTINV command to the alias
"D". Then we simply type D at the command line, and get 2D and 3D distance,
along with pretty much any other information we find useful as Surveyors.
One command, no Inquiry Tool to fight, very fast and easy... And since we
can get BOTH a 2D and 3D distance, it's actually kind of nice having a 3D
survey. And there is also the Extract2d command, as mentioned earlier, which
will extract 2D linework straight from the figures, with a bunch of options
(such as create the 2D linework on different layer than the source figure,
or move the source figure to a different layer while creating the 2D
linework on the original layer, etc.). There are even more tools, such as
the EntityTracker. When you turn it on and hover the cursor over 3D
linework, you get both the 2D and 3D length, along with an average grade
along the entire length of the figure (taking into account all the vertical
up/down). The only real thing that we still find very frustrating is the
(lack of) linetype generation in default entities like Survey Figures and
Feature Lines. The fact that linetypes also display incorrectly when there's
lots of vertical relief is pretty annoying, too, but we actually don't hit
that situation very often. Usually, it's the lack of linetype generation in
Survey Figures that is most frustrating. We can convert the figures to 2D
easily enough, but it's annoying that we even have to worry about it. --
Sinc http://www.ejsurveying.com http://www.quuxsoft.com

[ocsurveyor]

Need to edit the report for the legal writer? How do I edit the xml to include the style I want?

[_Hathaway]

Not sure how to do that OC. May want to start a new topic so it's not mixed up in this one.

[sboon]

Asking a new question on a topic as old as this one is considered to be bad form.  Some of us don't appreciate having to read through an entire thread trying to figure out how it relates to your new question.

Steve
Please use the Accept as Solution or Kudo buttons when appropriate

[cbaildon001]

To get 2D distances change your OSNAPZ system variable to 1 or to label a line with 2D distance, create a label style that reports the 2D distance.

I have no issue with reporting 2D distances from 3D objects without using any 3rd party app.