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Exporting Pipe Networks to Setting Out Engineer

18 REPLIES 18
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Message 1 of 19
h0rringrip
1722 Views, 18 Replies

Exporting Pipe Networks to Setting Out Engineer

I have created a complicated 3D utilities model using pipe networks. All the clashes have been ironed out, the 3D DWF looks great when rotated, the client is happy. Now It is time to hand it over to the contractor to build. He hasn't got Civil 3D and isn't going to get get it. He either want's the information as an x,y,z, text format or a 3d polyline. I cannot see anyway of doing this with the tools available. I am relatively new to this software, so I maybe missing a trick or two here. What is the most common way of issuing this type of data to contractors, what type file formats can theses guys usually read?

18 REPLIES 18
Message 2 of 19
Joe-Bouza
in reply to: h0rringrip

no profiles? crossing table? I wouldn't trust anyone to study 3d plines to build something give engineered numbers.

Thank you

Joseph D. Bouza, P.E. (one of 'THOSE' People)

HP Z210 Workstation
Intel Xeon CPU E31240 @ 3.30 Hz
12 GB Ram


Note: Its all Resistentialism, so keep calm and carry on

64 Bit Win10 OS
Message 3 of 19
h0rringrip
in reply to: h0rringrip

I have 35 profiles drawn up, the contractor isn't interested. He just wants someting to input into his total station.As a relative newcomer to this I am just trying to understand what is the correct workflow in this situation.

 

Thanks

Message 4 of 19
KirkNoonan
in reply to: h0rringrip

Look on the toolbox tab of your workspace. Under Reports Manage -> Pipes, you should find a .csv file structure report which will give you Northing and Easting as well as Station and Offset values.

Message 5 of 19
sboon
in reply to: h0rringrip

You should be able to dump out all 35 of those alignments and profiles to an xml file and then let the surveyor figure it out.  You didn't mention what hardware or software the contractor is using, but if I was doing the layout I would definitely want the alignment and profile of the pipes, not just the x,y,z locations at the manholes.

Steve
Expert Elite Alumnus
Message 6 of 19
dgordon
in reply to: h0rringrip

did you produce a set of plans for this work that normal contractors can build the design from?

 

I would think that a xyz file of the structures and bends complete with control points would be enough for them if they already have plans to go off of.

 

 

Dan

Civil 3D 2013
Win 7 Pro x64
Intel Xeon 2.0GHz
12Gb Ram
ATI Firepro 4800
Dell T5500
www.preinnewhof.com
Message 7 of 19
nostupidquestions
in reply to: dgordon

is there a way to edit the format of what the report manager puts in the cvs file?

Intel(R) Xeon(R) W-2245 CPU @ 3.90GHz 3.91 GHz
64 GB RAM
C3D 2023.2
Message 8 of 19

If you mean the precision and units, yes. Use the left toolbox button at the top of the toolspace window to change those types of settings. If you want to change the information in the report, not without difficulty. There used to be a stand-alone tool called something like 'LandXML Reports' that would let you modify some of the reports, but when I went to locate it now, it appears to have been done away with. If you still have 2009 or earlier installed you might be able to find it there. Otherwise, you could probably edit the XSL file if you're good at that sort of thing.

You could also make a structure table in your drawing which could be shoe-horned into an Excel spreadsheet, or maybe even linked to the spreadsheet.

Found it, but I remembered it as something else. The report tool is located at C:\Program Files (x86)\Autodesk\LandXML Reporting 8

Message 9 of 19
sboon
in reply to: KirkNoonan

The LandXML reporting tool is still installed, at least with 2012, but there is no shortcut supplied during the installation.  You have to search for it and make your own shortcut.  On my Win 8 computer it's found at

 

C:\Program Files (x86)\Autodesk\LandXML Reporting 8\Reporting.exe

 

Steve
Expert Elite Alumnus
Message 10 of 19
nostupidquestions
in reply to: sboon

thanks.

Intel(R) Xeon(R) W-2245 CPU @ 3.90GHz 3.91 GHz
64 GB RAM
C3D 2023.2
Message 11 of 19

Thanks for all your input guys. I have exported structures in csv format as suggested. The manhole/node information is all there but in a random order. From the csv file I created a simple xyz text file, the data from which I pasted into the Autocad command line to generate a 3D polyline. The polyline looks like a spiders web!! The contractor can digitise that into his preferred format.

I cant afford to spend anymore time on this as our original brief from the client was to create a 3D model and hand it over to the contractor (a big multinational using Autocad LT!!), so our fee didn't include all this extra faffing about. As we progressed the model over the last few months, we kept asking the contractor, can you actually use this type of information. We didn't get an answer until they actually wanted to start construction. (Pull out hair time!!)

 

Looking to the next project, if the pipe networks were exported to Navisworks, could a BIM Manager issue setting out information more easily or universally compatible format than a Civil 3D user.

Message 12 of 19
KirkNoonan
in reply to: h0rringrip

Glad it worked for you - sort of. We run across the same thing a lot with people not understanding what the C3D deliverable can or should be. The major shortcoming of all of this "BIM" is that in our field, people have to dig away beneath the location of almost everything they are going to build. That renders an export of the center of structures or the vertices of an edge of pavement pretty worthless until you do the next step and generate some sort of offset that can be used in the field.

I'm not sure about the Navisworks, but I suspect that the answer is no. When we create stakeout information for sanitary/storm structures, we start with the point list similar to what you created, and then generate offset points from that. A simple trick is to make a box with the dimensions of the requested offsets, select all of the points and copy them from the center of the box to each of the 4 corners.

Message 13 of 19
neilyj666
in reply to: KirkNoonan

Biggest problem I get is the reluctance of consultants/clients to supply any kind of CAD version of anything - typical response to the request being :  "We've given you the pdf why do you need anything else.?" or "It's against out policy to supply CAD files".

 

Presumably until the claims/liability confrontational culture is resolved, the grand BIM dream will remain just that... a dream..!!

neilyj (No connection with Autodesk other than using the products in the real world)
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Message 14 of 19
troma
in reply to: neilyj666

We will supply CAD to surveyors for layout.  Typically we run ExporttoACAD first and they get a dumb drawing.  But we won't send it out without a disclaimer, basically saying that the stamped drawings are your Bible, this is just an assist, and you better make sure that what you're doing agrees with the paper drawings.

 

 

So when are we going to be able to model everthing in 3D at the proper coordinates and then just send the robots out with their inbuilt GPS to do the construction for us?


Mark Green

Working on Civil 3D in Canada

Message 15 of 19
peter_thomson
in reply to: troma

Thought I would add to this.

Presuming you have drawn profile views for each pipe run, you can create a feature line from an alignment and get it to also respect an invert profile. We have had a utility written that creates a dynamic invert profile along the pipes on any PV selected but it also respects inner manhole wall locations automatically, so with a hybrid PV band set (some bands reading the invert profile and other readiing the pipe network) we get band levels (staggered) at MH walls for free! . You would have to digitrace an invert profile along your pipr inverts. Then you simply create a feature line from each pipe run alignment and select the invert profile for each alignment as you go.

Once you have all your invert feature lines, you can explode them all to poly lines. I have done this a couple of times for a project surveyor and it was useful to him using GPS to help the contractor know where future pipes were going to be laid while he was doing earthworks, rock cutting etc. The beauty of this approach was, he dould set out the location of an invert at any point along a pipe string.

PeterT

Message 16 of 19
h0rringrip
in reply to: peter_thomson

Great solution, but it really does highlight the shortcomings of this package, when it comes down to the innovation of users to get design information out in a usable format. Come on Autodesk, if Bentley can do it, I am sure you can!!

Message 17 of 19

the easiest solution that doesn't yet exist is to have c3d automatically create points for a pipe network. then you would have your PNEZD information for all your structures. 

Intel(R) Xeon(R) W-2245 CPU @ 3.90GHz 3.91 GHz
64 GB RAM
C3D 2023.2
Message 18 of 19

Have things moved on in the last 2 years? I'm now trying to find the right format to export a setting out package called LSS. It can import dxf, xml and genio files, but Civil 3D can't export pipe networks in these formats correctly. I had high hopes for xml, but LSS doesn't like the xml Civil 3D produces. Has anybody out there managed a direct export from Civil 3D into any setting out software, without some kind of manual manipulation.

Message 19 of 19
neilyj666
in reply to: h0rringrip

Have you asked the guys at LSS (probably Richard Dalton) for any advice on this - they are generally pretty good ?

neilyj (No connection with Autodesk other than using the products in the real world)
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