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description key editing

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Message 1 of 72
allywhite666
5526 Views, 71 Replies

description key editing

Is anyone else disappointed with the description key editor in C3D?

I have been trying without success to find an easy way to edit description keys, copy and paste keys and do simple tasks with them.

The key editor in C3D is horrible, I would much prefer to be able to edit the keys in excel.

I am able to import and export the files using Sincpac-C3D but once they are exported you can't edit them or do anything to them so this is only good for backing up.

some things that I find annoying are -

If I have 2 description key files and want to take a few keys from one and put them in another, I can copy them but cant paste them into the second.

If I want to find a key quickly in a description key file I cant simply type the first letter of the key and expect the editor to jump to it, I have to manually scroll through all the keys until I find it.

I think Autodesk needs to improve this feature, anyone else?

71 REPLIES 71
Message 2 of 72
rl_jackson
in reply to: allywhite666

I dont want them to do anything to it, they'll break it if they do.

Rick Jackson
Survey CAD Technician VI

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Message 3 of 72
Cadguru42
in reply to: allywhite666

Editing any of the survey data or features in C3D is a pain. Not sure why Autodesk makes it so hard. Just try editing a figure from the panorama and you'll most likely crash (in 2015). Opening a survey database in 2015 will immediately corrupt it where no previous version can open it. Figures in the drawing will lose their connection to the database all the time. Editing description keys, like you mention, is cumbersome since you can't easily navigate to find them. Can't have a single point with multiple point styles, etc.

 

Surveying is the red-headed step child of C3D that gets the least attention. 

C3D 2022-2024
Windows 10 Pro
32GB RAM
Message 4 of 72
allywhite666
in reply to: allywhite666

It's quite frustrating I thought 2015 would have updated this, and a few other things, now I am seriously considering changing software. This is a pity as I have been using Autodesk from way back to Land desktop. They need to listen to the users.


@rl jackson - It's already broken. 🙂

Message 5 of 72
volusiajim
in reply to: allywhite666

I just wish they would just keep LDD.  That way I would stop hearing the griping about moving to civil 3d on a daily basis from our survey department and I would get a decent base map from them.

 

If it aint broke...yada yada

 

-Jim

Message 6 of 72
rl_jackson
in reply to: volusiajim

I certainly don't - C3D is way better than LDD ever was and I have been doing Survey since the DCA days.If they can't figure it out get them some training.

Rick Jackson
Survey CAD Technician VI

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Message 7 of 72
Cadguru42
in reply to: volusiajim


@volusiajim wrote:

I just wish they would just keep LDD.  That way I would stop hearing the griping about moving to civil 3d on a daily basis from our survey department and I would get a decent base map from them.

 

If it aint broke...yada yada

 

-Jim


Don't get me wrong. C3D is still much better, even for surveying, than LDD. I just wish Autodesk actually spend time working and improving the survey side. So far all they've done is mess it up on almost every version, fix it months later, then break it again a few months after that with a new release. Autodesk hasn't done any UI modifications to make it faster and easier to use in 10 years, but they have made useless changes such as coming up with a "vector based figure" versus a "chain based figure". All drawing objects in AutoCAD are vector based, so the terminology is ignorant, there's nothing in the help as to why or what the differences are, and there's no advantage of creating two types of figures other than to make things even more complicated. 

 

Even with all those issues, it's much faster to process survey data and get a base drawing and surfaces with C3D than LDD or Softdesk could ever do. 

C3D 2022-2024
Windows 10 Pro
32GB RAM
Message 8 of 72
_Hathaway
in reply to: allywhite666

While I agree, the editor is not very user friendly in the ways you have described. I'm not sure I have ever wanted to copy from one description key set to another due to the numerous factors that are intertwined within each code. How many do you really need? We use two, one for 'our' work and one for certain 'municipal' work. Once created and functional there is very little need to mess with them.

That said, I would like to see the items you mentioned fixed.
Message 9 of 72
allywhite666
in reply to: allywhite666

Of course Civil 3D is better than Land Desktop, it's newer if it wasn't then autodesk would have some extreme troubles. As software progresses it usually gets better (not always) but the problem with Civil 3D is they have jammed more than one profession into one program, this creates a bloated program that people only use part of.

A Surveyor/ surveying drafter will only use some small parts of the program while an engineer will use other parts. From a surveying drafting point of view it's like using a sledge hammer to put in a tack. If they had continued to develop Land Desktop it would have been a good program I am sure, instead we have to wait and wait and wait for Civil 3D to load up, I don't envy anyone who dosen't have a SSD.

I am assuming they were not getting enough customers with Land desktop to put any more into it and so just stuck it in with the civil side, this is risky though because the people who do use it may now start to look elsewhere and there are some interesting alternatives that I have been seeing.

 

@ mikehathaway2942

Hi mike, companies with different regional offices have different desc. keys and sometimes a user may need some of the keys from a different office to add to their own, but not every single key in a file. Also in the survey field software, which uses excel to sort the codes, the surveyors can add some codes that are not in the Civil 3D key set, this is usually not many but in some cases I have seen a lot. The ability to just copy and paste them into Civil 3D would save typing in individual codes, I understand there are "numerous factors" to each code but the ability to paste the basic stuff into the editor would save us so much time.

 

Message 10 of 72
tcorey
in reply to: allywhite666

This has been one of my pet peeves for a long time. The dialog is just cumbersome to navigate.

 

Wish list.

 

 



Tim Corey
MicroCAD Training and Consulting, Inc.
Redding, CA
Autodesk Gold Reseller

New knowledge is the most valuable commodity on earth. -- Kurt Vonnegut
Message 11 of 72
annw2
in reply to: allywhite666

I totally agree. See my other post as I try to figure this out. I would have been a lot happier if I could consistently be able to type a description key in the first column without the cursor jumping all over the 'spreadsheet'

I tried starting description keys a few years ago, but couldn't get the crews to agree to type anything consistently in the data collectors. Then the economy tanked and we essentially stopped surveying. Now that we have one crew and a large project, I am tying to use this feature again. It is very frustrating.
Ann Wingert, P.E.
Message 12 of 72
Cadguru42
in reply to: annw2


@annw2 wrote:
I totally agree. See my other post as I try to figure this out. I would have been a lot happier if I could consistently be able to type a description key in the first column without the cursor jumping all over the 'spreadsheet'

I tried starting description keys a few years ago, but couldn't get the crews to agree to type anything consistently in the data collectors. Then the economy tanked and we essentially stopped surveying. Now that we have one crew and a large project, I am tying to use this feature again. It is very frustrating.

The way I got our surveyors to use the correct codes in the field is by controling the description keys, figure prefix database, and the temlpate. They are required to input the survey data into the database, so when they use incorrect codes they have to fix everything themselves. At first they complained about all the work, but when I pointed out that if the field codes were used correctly it'll take about 5 seconds to import the data into a drawing they changed their tune. Now they love it. I just wish I could get them to do more of the editing to the database instead of relying on me. 

C3D 2022-2024
Windows 10 Pro
32GB RAM
Message 13 of 72
GTVic
in reply to: allywhite666

I've adapted a VB.NET macro that I use to create description keys. The macro exports and imports and allows you to use Excel to modify the keys. I can upload it here if anyone is interested.

Message 14 of 72
tcorey
in reply to: GTVic

That would be most generous of you....



Tim Corey
MicroCAD Training and Consulting, Inc.
Redding, CA
Autodesk Gold Reseller

New knowledge is the most valuable commodity on earth. -- Kurt Vonnegut
Message 15 of 72
allywhite666
in reply to: GTVic

Yes, that would be much appreciated by me and I am sure many others.

Message 16 of 72
KirkNoonan
in reply to: allywhite666

Even just the ability to import/export to and from Excel would be a huge improvement. If you need to make global changes, there is a very convoluted method to edit an LDD descriptor database  file with Excel and then import it into Civil 3D, but you only get half of the attributes frm the LDD side, making it useful as a broadbrush starting point at best because you still have to use the C3D interface to finish.

Message 17 of 72
GTVic
in reply to: GTVic

VB.NET macro attached. You will have to NETLOAD the DLL file, the command name is PDKSCU. Developed under Civil 3D 2015, briefly tested on 2013. Probably won't work on anything earlier.

 

Or maybe not, can't seem to get the attachment uploaded. Fixed now I think.

Message 18 of 72
KirkNoonan
in reply to: GTVic

Wow! If this works the way it seems like it will then it will be a huge timesaver. I'll give it a try. Thanks.

Message 19 of 72
annw2
in reply to: KirkNoonan

You can easily open a comma delineated fiile in Excell, sort by description, then export back to a comma delineated file.

Ann Wingert, P.E.
Message 20 of 72
allywhite666
in reply to: GTVic

Thank you soooo much GT, I will give this a try soon. You are my hero. Heart

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