Community
Civil 3D Forum
Welcome to Autodesk’s Civil 3D Forums. Share your knowledge, ask questions, and explore popular AutoCAD Civil 3D topics.
cancel
Showing results for 
Show  only  | Search instead for 
Did you mean: 

Cut and Fill Estimating

15 REPLIES 15
Reply
Message 1 of 16
j3ff1rw1n
14033 Views, 15 Replies

Cut and Fill Estimating

I work for construction company as an estimator. Just to be clear, my background is in GIS, Urban Planning and Surveying. I'm quite versed in AutoCAD design and also use it daily for calculating quantity takeoffs for proposed construction projects.

 

Here's my question. I've been testing Civil 3D as a quick method for calculating cut and fill quantities. I've done some reading and I think I've figured out a simple method of doing this. What I would like to know is if I'm doing this properly.

 

Below are the steps I've taken to produce my numbers:

 

1. Existing and proposed elevation marks in the AutoCAD drawing are assigned points with correct z elevations.

                note* the existing and proposed elevations cover almost the exact same surface areas. To be clear, if a polyline was connected around the boundary points of each layer, they would almost match up.

 

2. All points are brought into Civil 3D 

 

3. Existing points are converted into Civil 3D cogo points with the description "existing"

 

4. Same process as step 3 used for the proposed points with the description "proposed"

 

5. Existing and proposed cogo points are assigned to separate point groups with relative names

 

6. Two TIN surfaces are created with surface style "Contours 1m and 5m (design)" 

                note* I'm not sure what the difference between the (design) and (background) options are

 

7.  Both existing and proposed point groups are assigned to each relative surface. 

 

8. A TIN volume surface is created using surface style "Contours 1m and 5m (design)" and the "existing" TIN surface is assigned to the base surface, with the "proposed" TIN surface assigned to the comparison surface.

                note* Cut and Fill factor are left at 1.000, as I'm unsure how these values effect the TIN volume surface.

 

Basically that's it. I'm getting some nice cut and fill numbers when I check the properties of the volume surface and they do seem to be accurate, but I would like to be 100% sure that I’m getting accurate information

 

To reiterate, I am very new to Civil 3D, and any input on my method would be greatly appreciated.

 

Cheers,

 

Jeff

 

p.s. I've attached the file "Cut fill test.dwg" if you would like to see what was done.

15 REPLIES 15
Message 2 of 16
BrianHailey
in reply to: j3ff1rw1n

If all you have are spot elevations, I would say you are doing it correctly.

Brian J. Hailey, P.E.



GEI Consultants
My Civil 3D Blog

Message 3 of 16
wdbar
in reply to: BrianHailey

Since you've created a comparison surface - 'Cut Fill'.  You can also create color schemes to verify where the cut and fill areas respectively are.

 

At a glance your drawing looks correct.

Message 4 of 16
tony1978
in reply to: j3ff1rw1n

you can also use the surface volume feature under the sufaces pulldown, utilities. I typically just use this feature unless i need to display a color scheme for cut and fill areas. You also have to consider in a compression factor. when they bring in dirt for roads or lot grading they are going to pack it down. In the surface volume feature i typically use a 1.15 fill compaction factor. anyways hopes this helps.

 

 

tony carcamo

Senior Design Tech

www.tonyscivil3dworld.blogspot.com

 Tony Carcamo


President/Owner


Civil CAD Learning Solutions


DFW BIM Infrastructure User Group


LinkedIn | Twitter | Instagram | DFWBIUG |User Group




Message 5 of 16
neilyj666
in reply to: j3ff1rw1n

Always remebering that the cut and fill factors (also called bulkage factor, swell factors,compaction factor) can vary with material type and compaction method etc so use with caution.

 

The other thing to consider is that the spot levels accurately define the surface and that breaklines are not required to enhance the triangulation

neilyj (No connection with Autodesk other than using the products in the real world)
Did you find this post helpful? Feel free to Like this post.
Did your question get successfully answered? Then click on the ACCEPT SOLUTION button.

EESignature


AEC Collection 2024 UKIE (mainly Civil 3D UKIE and IW)
Win 11 Pro x64, 1Tb Primary SSD, 1Tb Secondary SSD
64Gb RAM Intel(R) Xeon(R) W-11855M CPU @ 3.2GHz
NVIDIA RTX A5000 16Gb, Dual 27" Monitor, Dell Inspiron 7760
Message 6 of 16
PeterKozub
in reply to: j3ff1rw1n

Hello Jeff

 

But just as far as using C3d 2011 i use C3D as a  survey & design  "mostly"  and next a Vols Qc for complex highways

Without a sample of your project I have found that you may be up  the creek.

 

No 1 civil 3 D is complex with no such thing as a casual user, autocad background more or less of small benefit

Survey robots             1/10 complexity

Gps                             1/10 complexity

 

C3D                9/10 complexity - it is not a estimating tool i am sad to say unless you use say C3D all day long

 

But i would say that i Like C3D for it is fare better that LDT (user simple) since  1999 however the complecity has

gone way of the scale

 

PS  i have my own small survey company

 

Any comment on your procedures would be difficult at best

 

PK

Message 7 of 16
PeterKozub
in reply to: j3ff1rw1n

Jeff

 i loloked at the DWG and it may be in the long run to farm the work out for like i said C3d is complex and i

would be better to look at a simplier program to hunt down stock pile volumes or excavation volumes.

 

For a most projects now are made up of assembly of endless drawings and to piece it all together is a chore

for sooner or later you will require design C3D dwgs

 

Peter K

 

Message 8 of 16
ericcollins6932
in reply to: j3ff1rw1n

Your basic premise is right. Create an EG surface from your topo points, and a FG surface for your design points and wither use the volume tool or what you're doing.

 

The two surfaces do not need to agree in size as the smaller surface will be used.

 

The same thing can be done in ArcGIS but takes longer and you need to use extensions. C3D is much faster. I do the same as you on a daily basis to estimate volumes. Ignore the suggestion to outsource.

 

Design and background contour styles are simply different so yo ucan visually tell the difference between youe EG and FG surfaces.

 

The factors are based on compaction and expansion depending on what you are removing in cut and fil; different materials compact and expand at different rates. For a high level number, leave them at 1.

Eric Collins, P.Tech.(Eng.)

Win 10
Intel i7 9700 @ 3 GHz
16 GB RAM
Civil 3D 2019
Message 9 of 16
j3ff1rw1n
in reply to: wdbar

Color schemes are very helpful. It makes it much easier to determine what's being moved based on the borehole data. Thank you. 

Message 10 of 16
j3ff1rw1n
in reply to: j3ff1rw1n

When it comes to farming out this work, it just makes no sense. We have some great Trimble based GPS hardware that we use for site layout, and C3D would complement our surveying hardware as much as our estimating numbers.

As for the rest of the comments, I appreciate all the input. This sounds like the best method to produce the data I’m looking for.

 

As for bulking and compaction factors, they are always in the back of my head, but I do appreciate the advice.

 

I also agree ESRI products can produce much of the data I’m looking for, but GIS software (as much as I love it) is somewhat unnecessary for a construction company. On a side note, I have heard good things about Manifold though (cost vs. capability).

 

Again, thank you all. It is much appreciated.

 

Jeff 

Message 11 of 16
BrianHailey
in reply to: j3ff1rw1n

Jeff,

 

Just remember that you have GIS software with Civil 3D as it has the functionality of Map 3D built in.

Brian J. Hailey, P.E.



GEI Consultants
My Civil 3D Blog

Message 12 of 16
johnsmth741
in reply to: j3ff1rw1n

Hi

 

I am a university student trying to use civil 3d for one of my projects. I understand the process once the surfaces are created however, unclear on how to create a surface from the existing and proposed levels i have for the site.

 

So for the site I have the aod levels for the proposed and existing these are on a 2d drawing no z elevation

Any help will be appreciated

Message 13 of 16
j3ff1rw1n
in reply to: johnsmth741

If you are working with only points, you'll need to add z elevations or the surface will be flat. If the points were created in AutoCAD, you'll need to convert them into C3D points.

 

Try this

 

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/ps/dl/item?siteID=123112&id=14711189&linkID=9240697

 

Once you convert the points, make sure you assign your existing and proposed points to different point groups. You can now create the surfaces and you're pretty much done. 

Message 14 of 16
012576945
in reply to: j3ff1rw1n

Hi Jeff,

 

I've just started work as an estimator and I'm new to CAD. I have a contour map on AutoCAD Civil 3D with contour lines. How would I be able to use AutoCad to estimate the quantities of fill that I can obtain for the site? Lets say that the highest elevation is 20 feet and I want to bring the site down to 10ft?

 

 

Thanks!

Message 15 of 16
Pointdump
in reply to: 012576945

Welcome to the Forum. Please start a new thread. This thread is three years old.

 

Dave

Dave Stoll
Las Vegas, Nevada

EESignature

64GB DDR4 2400MHz ECC SoDIMM / 1TB SSD
NVIDIA Quadro P5000 16GB
Windows 10 Pro 64 / Civil 3D 2024
Message 16 of 16
UlyssesR21
in reply to: j3ff1rw1n

I have a similar conflict, I need to find a good software to do earthwork take offs, I've talked and received demos from people from agtek, viewpoint, insite sitework (still waiting to hear from paydirt).

 

But wha about civil3D!? can you perform earthwork take offs out of pdf plans with civil3D,(I NEVER GET CAD files) I know you can digitize a pdf to dwg but I dont know if you can give your now polylines the right properties (elevation, etc) to work with civil3d.

Would it be worth it to invest in training for civil3D instead of buying an expensive dirt software? would it do the same thing and has fast once you mastered it?

 

Any advise would be greatly appreciate it.

Can't find what you're looking for? Ask the community or share your knowledge.

Post to forums  

Rail Community


Autodesk Design & Make Report