Creating Sub-Assemblies

[doni49]

If I create/import a sub-assembly, where is it stored?  Meaning is it embedded in one of the cuix files?

What happens when my computer is upgraded?  Or acad is re-installed?

What if I need a one-off sub-assembly--meaning that I'll only need it for THIS project?  I don't want it in my pallette permanently in that case.  Can I delete it from the pallette after I've added it to the Assembly?

[AlmasSuljevic]

Assemblies have nothing to do with CUIX files. If you create an assembly it is only stored in your drawing. So upgrading corridor or uninstalling and reinstalling program will not have effect on the drawing.

If you want to import subassemblies you will most likely want to place them on your tool palette. But if you don't want to keep it you can delete it. 

[doni49]

---

@AlmasSuljevic wrote:

Assemblies have nothing to do with CUIX files. If you create an assembly it is only stored in your drawing. So upgrading corridor or uninstalling and reinstalling program will not have effect on the drawing.

If you want to import subassemblies you will most likely want to place them on your tool palette. But if you don't want to keep it you can delete it. 

---

I know that ASSEMBLIES are stored in the dwg file.  I'm asking about SUB-assemblies.  They have to be stored SOMEWHERE and I'm asking WHERE that is.  When I import a pkt file, WHERE does it put it?  Where are these pallettes stored?

And whoever came up with this workflow -- create your sub-assembly in a separate application, save it, open acad to import the SA and then import the SA -- IS NUTS!  AND then when this SA needs a change, I have to delete it from the pallette so that I can re-import it (oh and after deleting it, CLOSE ACAD before doing the re-import).  That's even MORE NUTS!

I realize that the SAC was created to make it so that users can create their own SAs.  But it needs some SERIOUS re-thinking.

[AlmasSuljevic]

I personally don’t think there is anything wrong with the workflow as it is meant to create subassemblies in SAC and then have it available in Civil 3D. The point of Subassembly composer is a program used to create subassemblies to supplement the stock subassemblies that come with Civil 3D. Subassemblies are just building block and what other users do is basically create a library of these custom assemblies and making them available for others by PKT files or by placing them on the tool palette.

When you import PKT files you are basically placing them into your tool palette but the PKT file in fact is unzipped and copied in default location C:\ProgramData\Autodesk\C3D 2013\enu\Imported Tools\

[fcernst]

"I personally don’t think there is anything wrong with the workflow"

You can't be serious Almas? You think having to 1)delete the SAC SA's from your Palette, 2) shut down and restart the software, 3)then Import the PKT file again to your Palette.... every time you make a little change to your subassembly in SAC is OK?

Man we have a long way to go, if this is the thinking...

[AlmasSuljevic]

Fred,

If you create your subassembly correctly then you should have options to tweak the settings in Subassembly Properties dialog pretty much the same way you would tweak any other stock subassembly so there should be really no need to revisit. Basically, if you have your SA finished that’s when you want to add it to your tool palette. As I mentioned, what I would suggest is to create custom tool palette with these custom subassemblies and keep them there. So the workflow is meant to be one-way street. You create subassembly in SAC and then you import it in Civil 3D. You should not be required to shut down the software, but if you want to fix your SA because it is not coded correctly you would have to do it in SAC. 

[doni49]

---

@AlmasSuljevic wrote:

Fred,

If you create your subassembly correctly then you should have options to tweak the settings in Subassembly Properties dialog pretty much the same way you would tweak any other stock subassembly so there should be really no need to revisit. Basically, if you have your SA finished that’s when you want to add it to your tool palette. As I mentioned, what I would suggest is to create custom tool palette with these custom subassemblies and keep them there. So the workflow is meant to be one-way street. You create subassembly in SAC and then you import it in Civil 3D. You should not be required to shut down the software, but if you want to fix your SA because it is not coded correctly you would have to do it in SAC. 

---

And just HOW do you propose that I test it to be sure that I've created it "correctly"?  THAT's why I need to delete and re-import it.  This seems to be a way of thinking with the Autodesk developers -- "once the user creates it, then it's FINAL".

[david.zavislan]

Save your pkt files.  When your computer is upgraded you can re-import them.  This will add them back to the tool palette and install them on your upgraded computer.

The actual subassembly files themselves are saved in the C:\ProgramData\Autodesk\C3D 2013\enu\Imported Tools\ folder.  Depending on your configuration, this may also be in the C:\Users\[username}\AppData\Roaming\Autodesk\C3D 2013\enu\Imported Tools\ folder.  However, I don't think you can simply copy these files from one computer to the next, because they may not get registered.

I also find the debugging process, that you described, to be rather cumbersome.  I would be nice if they had an import and update subassembly command.

[doni49]

I just started a thread over in the wishlist forum.  Showing what I think would be a great workflow for creating/editing/using sub-assemblies.  I'd encourage you to give it a read.

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/AutoCAD-Civil-3D-Wishes/SAC-Inside-of-C3D/td-p/3823473

[fcernst]

'If you create your subassembly correctly"......So the workflow is meant to be one-way street.

This is just awesome advice Almas. Can you pass this on to the C3D 2013 development team for a great reference on how to develop and test software? You know, on how to just simply get things right the first time?

Seriously:

Have you seen the video where Peter Funk shuts down and restarts the software as he tests his subassemblies?

Have you read the recommended workflow from Mr.Funk in this forum on how to Shut Down the software and re-Import subassemblies?

[peterfunkautodesk]

One of the reasons the workflow is "less than ideal" is that the SA use .NET and because of security concerns Microsoft prevents a .NET DLL from being unloaded. This forces a restart of Civil 3D to update the .DLL. We agree that the process to update a SA could be improved.

Regards,

Peter Funk

Autodesk, Inc.

[fcernst]

Yes, you clearly state that in your videos.

I would highly suggest the post by Almas be taken down. It contains much misinformation for new users.

1. There are no settings once the SA is in C3D to "tweak" as suggested. Those are simply subassembly Input Parameters.
2. You do have to Shut Down and restart the software every time you want to Import a new version of your subassembly for testing.

[doni49]

---

@peterfunkautodesk wrote:

One of the reasons the workflow is "less than ideal" is that the SA use .NET and because of security concerns Microsoft prevents a .NET DLL from being unloaded. This forces a restart of Civil 3D to update the .DLL. We agree that the process to update a SA could be improved.

Regards,

Peter Funk

Autodesk, Inc.

---

Peter,

I can understand and accept that.....to a point.  But what I'm saying is that it should NOT be done using .Net if doing so creates the need for this workflow.  Create the SA as an object within the C3D environment -- much the same as C3D is able to create a CORRIDOR object or a TIN object, it should create a SUBASSEMBLY object.  PLEASE see the wishlist forum thread that I referenced above and give it some serious consideration.

From an end-user perspective, this would a WHOLE LOT easier/simpler/BETTER.  I do have enough programming experience/background (including TurboC++, VB.net, MDL (MicroStation), AutoLisp, PHP & VB among others) to know that it's completely feasible to do.

Anytime I make a feature request to ANY SOFTWARE company, I first try to imagine how I would program it.  If I can think of a way, THEN I ask that it be implemented because if I can come up with a way, then I'm sure your highly paid developers could do so.

EDIT:  Better than just saying that the thread is referenced above, HERE is the thread link:  http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/AutoCAD-Civil-3D-Wishes/SAC-Inside-of-C3D/td-p/3823473.

[nilesh33]

Hi friends,

Every one is saying we need to restart C3D at the time of importing SA, but in actual practice (while testing) every one used to rename the same Subassembly in Packet setting and importing it into Tool Pallet.

I know it is hectic to do the same. But we came to know actual revisions.

Also the Tool Palette should detect Pkt files from specific folder.

CanweshareourToolpalettewithothersonnetwork?

Regards,

Nilesh

[Anonymous]

The trick is that right before you save the newly edited Subassembly I change the name within the Packet settings by adding a 1,2 etc to the name.  Then when you import this new sub it just adds it to the list. I then erase the old one from the test assembly and add the new one.  Kinda nice in that I can keep an interation list of my subs on my toolpallet until I deem it necessary to erase them all.  No shutting down C3D is necessary.

Bill Neuhauser P.E.

[fcernst]

Really? Interesting.. This must be what Niles is alluding to. I'll have to try it.

Have you tried executing "Apply Tool Properties to Subassembly" to the old SA sitting on the Assembly, instead of having to delete the SA from the Assembly?

It's hard to go against a Peter Funk recommendation and he says to shut down C3D to unload the .NET DLL file.

Isn't he the product development manager for SAC? I wonder if there would be any stability issues down the road?

[doni49]

---

@fcernst wrote:

Really? Interesting.. This must be what Niles is alluding to. I'll have to try it.

Have you tried executing "Apply Tool Properties to Subassembly" to the old SA sitting on the Assembly, instead of having to delete the SA from the Assembly?

It's hard to go against a Peter Funk recommendation and he says to shut down C3D to unload the .NET DLL file.

Isn't he the product development manager for SAC? I wonder if there would be any stability issues down the road?

---

It sounds like it might be a vialble alternative.  When you eventually quit out of acad, the dll will be unloaded.  By importing a pkt file with a new name for the assembly, it seems like you're just creating a new dll (so that they're both loaded but if you've deleted one, it's just not available).

If you're loading a boat load of iterations, I can see where it might bog down your pc.  But other than that, it sounds like it should be ok.

I'll have to try that out.

THANKS!

[fcernst]

I emailed a drawing to another user that contained some of my SAC subassemblies. He reports the following:

If I right click 'Corridor - (5) .. " in the list and choose Rebuild a dialog appears "One or more subassembly macros (or .NET classes) could not be found."

I think this refelects the OP's original question about SAC workflow. Does this mean we need to send our PKT files along with the drawing, so the End User can Import the SAC subassemblies before opening my drawing?

Is that the workflow?

[nilesh33]

Hi,

Exactly. We have to import SAC subasseblies into Tool Palette before opening the Corridor File.

We need to send both SAC subassemblies (pkt files) and Corridor to the end user.

Regards,

nilesh

[Joe-Bouza]

---

@doni49 wrote:

---

@AlmasSuljevic wrote:

Assemblies have nothing to do with CUIX files. If you create an assembly it is only stored in your drawing. So upgrading corridor or uninstalling and reinstalling program will not have effect on the drawing.

If you want to import subassemblies you will most likely want to place them on your tool palette. But if you don't want to keep it you can delete it. 

---

<snip>

And whoever came up with this workflow -- create your sub-assembly in a separate application, save it, open acad to import the SA and then import the SA -- IS NUTS!  <snip>That's even MORE NUTS!

I realize that the SAC was created to make it so that users can create their own SAs.  But it needs some SERIOUS re-thinking.

---

The SAC is provided for users to develop assemblies that can't be achieved with the OOTB subs. That initself tells me that the user has either 1 of 2 things going on; they have some JPL grading or construction activity of the likes that the typical civil engineer does not see on a daily basis or they need to re-think what they are doing.

What does your section do? Many of the generic links can do oodles of different things