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coordinate conversion on import

16 REPLIES 16
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Message 1 of 17
dpoppe
581 Views, 16 Replies

coordinate conversion on import

Is it possible to turn off or disable the coordinate or drawing conversion on import. I know I can turn it off in a dwg file but I want to completely disable it no matter what the setting is in the dwg file.

 

Thanks for your help,

Don

16 REPLIES 16
Message 2 of 17
antoniovinci
in reply to: dpoppe

If you mean "conversion" upon the _MAPIMPORT command, it won't never be executed, unless you declare the CRS in the "Input coordinates system" field.

Message 3 of 17
dpoppe
in reply to: antoniovinci

I am refering to the international to us survey feet and metric conversion in the drawing settings

Message 4 of 17
sboon
in reply to: dpoppe

An ACad drawing file can be unitless, but a Civil3d file cannot.  The coordinates have to be either meters or feet.

 

I'm a little confused about why this is a problem for you.  If you import a point file then the software will normally assume that the values match your current drawing settings.  Are you having problems with importing points through the survey database?

 

Steve
Please use the Accept as Solution or Kudo buttons when appropriate

Steve
Expert Elite Alumnus
Message 5 of 17
dpoppe
in reply to: sboon

I work as a land survey, this is a problem because we receive drawing files from a number of different sources civil engineers, architects, etc. some of the files are generated by non-autodesk products or autodesk products with out these settings. Also many of these designers are not even aware of the differences and in cases where they are, many create or use their own systems that are not dirrectly related to the project coordinate system. When the new file is not defined C3D automatically sets these as International feet, by state law we use survey feet and to convert upon import. Since we usually work in a state plane coordinate system (6000000.00,2000000.00) to facilate working with GPS, the conversion difference between international feet and survey feet has resulted in about a 9 foot error. This can result in structures or roads being built in the wrong place. I would much prefer to turn this off and handle the conversions manually. We have had several instances now where these files have been missed and gone to the field to be layed out for construction. Fortunately so far to date we have always caught the errors, but they have resulted in lost time and productivity. While the automated conversion looks good in theory the reality is it is not universal in practice and I'm at the bottom of the hill so to speak, in the survey industry. If it works for some more power to you, for me it is a headache that now I must constantly check and recheck to see that unintended conversions are not happening. I until the settings are univerally in use I prefer the old way, when a drawing is not on the same system I resolve it manually.

Message 6 of 17
sboon
in reply to: dpoppe

One of the absolute rules around here is that you never open a drawing that was not created in Civil3d and just start working on it.  Always start a new drawing from your template, make sure that the settings are right, then xref the outside file and work from there.  This gives you the opportunity to correct the scale, coordinates, rotation etc.  Later you can bind and explode the file if you want the linework etc inside of your drawing.

 

Steve
Please use the Accept as Solution or Kudo buttons when appropriate

Steve
Expert Elite Alumnus
Message 7 of 17
dpoppe
in reply to: sboon

While I appreciate that rule of thumb. I do not have control of all senior staff. It would be much easier for me just to turn that function off and not worry about it any more. I have handled the conversions for many years without any problems, since we have gone to C3D I, and other surveyors I have talked to, have had to deal with this issue on to many occasions. Just let me turn it off and the problem is solved! Once the majority of the industry is fully on board and knows what they are doing great, until then I for one would just like to opt out by turning it off.

Message 8 of 17
antoniovinci
in reply to: sboon



sboon wrote:

xref the outside file and ... Later you can bind and explode the file


...or why not using a simple _INSERT in an empty C3D drawing..?

Message 9 of 17
dpoppe
in reply to: antoniovinci

Yes while each of these suggestions work when performed on each file. I have an office with a number of different skill levels in dealing with this problem. Not all of our staff have C3D some are using Map3D. Also our office has over 15 years of dwg files, thousands of dwg files, created before we had to switch to C3D, all of which when I now open, C3D by default assigns the wrong the settings. The simple solution is to turn off the automated conversion or at the every least have it prompt or warn the use a conversion is being done.. If you are in situation that this works great. I am finding the potential for a costly mistake out weighs the mnor benifit at this time.

Message 10 of 17
_Hathaway
in reply to: dpoppe

It appears your template file


@dpoppe wrote:

I work as a land survey, this is a problem because we receive drawing files from a number of different sources civil engineers, architects, etc. some of the files are generated by non-autodesk products or autodesk products with out these settings. Also many of these designers are not even aware of the differences and in cases where they are, many create or use their own systems that are not dirrectly related to the project coordinate system. When the new file is not defined C3D automatically sets these as International feet, by state law we use survey feet and to convert upon import. Since we usually work in a state plane coordinate system (6000000.00,2000000.00) to facilate working with GPS, the conversion difference between international feet and survey feet has resulted in about a 9 foot error. This can result in structures or roads being built in the wrong place. I would much prefer to turn this off and handle the conversions manually. We have had several instances now where these files have been missed and gone to the field to be layed out for construction. Fortunately so far to date we have always caught the errors, but they have resulted in lost time and productivity. While the automated conversion looks good in theory the reality is it is not universal in practice and I'm at the bottom of the hill so to speak, in the survey industry. If it works for some more power to you, for me it is a headache that now I must constantly check and recheck to see that unintended conversions are not happening. I until the settings are univerally in use I prefer the old way, when a drawing is not on the same system I resolve it manually.


It seems your template file and/or survey database(s) are not in sync. Do you use the survey database to insert points or do you import points straight to the dwg from the civil3d points menu?  We only use the survey database.

 

I work with survey points daily and have never had this problem you'r referring too.  In your civil3d Template file be sure the imperial to metric conversion under 'drawing settings' is set correctly (also be sure you've set it the to the correct zone).  In the survey database settings you will need to make sure the settings are correct.  Once done, set the survey database as your base template.  This way every time you start a new drawing and survey database everything is identical.  If any of them are not identical you will most likely have issues.  We have had no issues, although I have heard of many like yourself that have.

Message 11 of 17
dpoppe
in reply to: dpoppe

We generally do not use the survey database,. All of the point processing etc is done in Trimble software and we import the points into the drawing for use in creating a surface. The main issue here is in inserting a drawing. When I transfer points I use a simple .csv file and there is no coordinate system, I only made the mistake of using an xml file once. In the drawing settings a file that has not been opened and setup in C3D is by default assigned the international foot defination and to scale objects inserted. Our tempates are steup not to scale objects inserted and to work in survey feet. I have not found any way to change the initial default settings for C3D. As I noted I have 15 years worth of project dwgs for many on going projects that were created prior to switching to C3D. This has happened enough times that I spend to much time verifing data. I simply want to disable the option to scale inserted objects no matter what is set in the drawing file and my problem is solved.

Message 12 of 17
_Hathaway
in reply to: _Hathaway

Why would you set your Civil3d template file be set to International Foot if you work in US Survey Foot?  Open your template, set it, save it out as your main template file and you should be fine. Also, uncheck the box 'scale objects inserted from other drawings'.  SAVE this as your template.  There is no need to set anything up more than once when using a proper template.

 

We also use Trimble and export the same way.  However, all our importing happens through the survey database.  As I stated before, we have no scaling issues.

 

As a test I created several blank drawings and inserted points via the points menu with all options checked and international feet set and was not able to get any of my points to scale.  I'm not entirely sure what's going on on your end but you must start with a proper template.

Message 13 of 17
sboon
in reply to: _Hathaway

The template or survey database settings are not the issue here.  The OP is opening drawings which were not created by Civil3d.  In this case the software has no settings to start from so it reverts to the OOTB defaults.

 

Steve
Please use the Accept as Solution or Kudo buttons when appropriate

Steve
Expert Elite Alumnus
Message 14 of 17
_Hathaway
in reply to: sboon

Hmm, that definitely didn't come across clearly in his posts.....but after re-reading I can see that may be the case.

Word to the wise to OP. DO NOT USE ANY PRE CIVIL3D DRAWINGS IN CIVIL3D. Copy over pertinent linework or Xref data into your file. You can't mix and match. All our LDD data stays in LDD, anything new moves forward to Civil3d and must start with a clean Civil3d drawing.
Message 15 of 17
dpoppe
in reply to: _Hathaway

The use of the term coordinate was obviously a mistake on part. I was thinking of coordinate values for the objects in the drawing data base, ie the end point of lines etc. not just for points.

 

I am still left with the issue that when I am working on a drawing in C3D that was created with my template file set to survey feet. When I insert a drawing file that was not created in C3D I may get an unintended automated scaling of the inserted drawing. Unless I open an reset the drawing settings on each and every file. As I mentioned we have over 15 years of drawing files and I need to stay current on the dwg format to open dwg files created by other consultants and designers. Autocad has updated and changed the entities so that I cannot use LDD for ongoing projects. If I had projects that began ended in "reasonable" time frames it would make sense to phase in or out based on a project. I have some ongoing projects we have been working on for ten years and a couple we have been involved in for over twenty years. I may be over simplifing it, but just allowing us to control the default assigned to non-C3D drawing files or turning off the automated scaling would solve the issue. In the past I was able to control the scaling in Acad by a lisp routine. I have not found  any variables that will allow me to control it in C3D by a lisp routine.

Message 16 of 17
sboon
in reply to: dpoppe

It occurs to me that the default OOTB settings have to be stored somewhere, probably in the registry.  If someone knew where to look it might be possible to change that setting so that the default for non-Civil3d drawings in Imperial units would be US Survey feet instead of International.

 

Steve
Please use the Accept as Solution or Kudo buttons when appropriate

Steve
Expert Elite Alumnus
Message 17 of 17
AllenJessup
in reply to: dpoppe

So you're looking for a Civil 3D equivalent of INSUNITSDEFSOURCE. I'm not aware of any but as mentioned. It might be in the registry.

 

You're best course of action until them may be to create a copy of the drawing you need to insert, open it in Civil 3d and assign the correct system. Then insert that drawing. You could also open the drawing read only, assign the correct system then WBlock out what you need - making sure you include Map information.

 

Allen Jessup



Allen Jessup
Engineering Specialist / CAD Manager

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