ConditionalHorizontalTarget Subassembly issue

[Jeff_M]

This is driving me crazy! I have a fully modeled corridor for a 12 acre subdivision. The County plan checker now wants cross sections for every internal street...why, I have no idea, as the site is nearly level so every section is going to be just about identical. So i can cut the sections, no problem, and add 20 sheets or so to the plan set.

Enter the 'other' plan checker for the drainage and L.I.D. review. Now that there are sections, he's insisting on also showing any L.I.D. components in the sections where they occur (we have roadside bioretention below the sidewalk). For this I figur it will be fairly easy to add a ConditionalHorizontalTarget (set to only look 8') with the bioretention attached to it, select the layer with the plan view polylines indicating where those facilities are as the target, and I should have perfect sections! 

Wrong! While the targets are correctly used by the corridor, evidenced by the addition of frequency lines at the start and end of the selected polylines, the assembly only ever actually uses the Not Found scenario.What does one need to do to force it to use the Found option?

In this image, I first tried the layer option for the targets (the magenta rectangle) which failed to work correctly. I then drew a single polyline and manually selected it as the target, still no joy. I know the actual subs work, as I can change the property of the conditional sub to Not Found and the LID sub then shows. I'm getting down to the deadline on this and I've tried everything I can think of to beat this thing into submission. But since this is only the second time using these subs, I'm sure I'm missing a step somewhere. Any help is appreciated!

[Joe-Bouza]

Hi Jeff
I'm grabbing at straws here: is there an order in the assmebly construction tab that may be effecting the condition sub?

[Jeff_M]

I thought it might, Joe, so I've rebuilt one of the assemblies with identical results.

[Joe-Bouza]

No "Basic" subs in use, right?

[jmayo-EE]

Can you post this problem area in the corridor?

[jmayo-EE]

A few of my notes with conditions. Not that these seem to help but maybe it will jar something loose...

Many times when I work with confditional subs that target rectangular/square/perpindicular plines I need to add additional sections right before or after the condition change to get the corridor inside corners and stuff. Don't know if you have any tight corners that the sampling frequency might be missing...

Closed plines as targets or parallel targets (U shaped road) confuse the conditions...

[doni49]

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@Jeff_M wrote:

This is driving me crazy! I have a fully modeled corridor for a 12 acre subdivision. The County plan checker now wants cross sections for every internal street...why, I have no idea, as the site is nearly level so every section is going to be just about identical. So i can cut the sections, no problem, and add 20 sheets or so to the plan set.

Enter the 'other' plan checker for the drainage and L.I.D. review. Now that there are sections, he's insisting on also showing any L.I.D. components in the sections where they occur (we have roadside bioretention below the sidewalk). For this I figur it will be fairly easy to add a ConditionalHorizontalTarget (set to only look 8') with the bioretention attached to it, select the layer with the plan view polylines indicating where those facilities are as the target, and I should have perfect sections! 

Wrong! While the targets are correctly used by the corridor, evidenced by the addition of frequency lines at the start and end of the selected polylines, the assembly only ever actually uses the Not Found scenario.What does one need to do to force it to use the Found option?

In this image, I first tried the layer option for the targets (the magenta rectangle) which failed to work correctly. I then drew a single polyline and manually selected it as the target, still no joy. I know the actual subs work, as I can change the property of the conditional sub to Not Found and the LID sub then shows. I'm getting down to the deadline on this and I've tried everything I can think of to beat this thing into submission. But since this is only the second time using these subs, I'm sure I'm missing a step somewhere. Any help is appreciated!

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If you want to FORCE it to use found, then I'm assuming it would be safe to say that you KNOW it should be found.  If that's the case, why not eliminate the conditional completely and just use one of the links that will allow a horizontal target?

P.S. I understand the desire to figure out why it won't do it RIGHT.  But you said you're getting close to your deadline.  You could do this to get the plans done for your deadline and copy your data set to try and figure it out later.

[Jay_B · Accepted solution]

Jeff,

I use these a lot for driveways with different apron slopes and blvd scenarios, etc.

Try creating a Target Found (in my case "Flat Drive Lt Cond") and Target Not Found (in my case "Condition Not Found LT").

Then, in Corridor Properties, target the polyline for BOTH scenarios, Target Found and Target Not Found.

The both thing here has never made any sense to me but it's the only way I've got it to work correctly.

In screen shot, the green lines are targeted polylines.

[fcernst · Accepted solution]

 (set to only look 8') 

You are only looking out to an 8' offset for the LID. Just use the default 9999'.

If you are in an urban subdivision though, you may have another street 150' over or whatever....So if you're LIDS are at say typical ~25' offset, set a range out to say 40 or 50' feet to encompass the LIDS for the section, but not so far reaching to go out over to the other street's LIDS .

[Jeff_M]

Joe, nope, no Basic anything.

John, drawingis huge. It occurs with every Assembly I've tried to use it with. I'll try to make a trimmed down copy. I thought the closed plines may be causing the problem, that's why I tested with just a single pline but got the same result.

Don, I could just forget about the the conditional subassembly. The only problems with that idea are: the subassembly exists for cases like this so I should be able to utilize it; there are currently 85 locations for these bioretention facilitiess, so I would need to add 85 new regions to the corridor with 7 new assemblies; when the engineer decides to relocate one, or more, of the facilities, I would need to manually change the region(s). So, you see, it makes far more sense to get the sub designed for this to do it's job. 🙂

[Jeff_M]

Jay, you're right, doesn't make much sense tome, either.

Fred, because it is a congested site is why I used the small offset. I know that in every case the polylines will be 0-6 feet from the subassembly attachment point. I read the help a dozen times, searched the forums and elsewhere, to find where the subassembly offsets are measured from. I had tried using the offset just a touch more than the maximum distance from the baseline, as well, at one point without success.

However, combing BOTH the suggestions of Jay & Fred it is now working as desired! Woo Hoo! I can't believe I wasted nearly 2 days chasing this....Thank you to everyone with their suggestions, Kudos to Jay & Fred for making me try different things together.

[doni49]

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Jeff_M wrote: 

Don, I could just forget about the the conditional subassembly. The only problems with that idea are: the subassembly exists for cases like this so I should be able to utilize it; there are currently 85 locations for these bioretention facilitiess, so I would need to add 85 new regions to the corridor with 7 new assemblies; when the engineer decides to relocate one, or more, of the facilities, I would need to manually change the region(s). So, you see, it makes far more sense to get the sub designed for this to do it's job. 🙂

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Ouch!  Yeah -- I probably would've spent the time tracking it down too.  Glad you found the solution.  As far as needing to specify the same target for both the found & not found possibilities:

All that's really happening is the conditional creates an IF statement and when you place the Not Found option, C3D doesn't know if that the Not Found portion of the previous conditional (the Found option).  As far as C3D knows, this is just another conditional.  You could just as easily have one conditional that targets a polyline and then another that targets ANOTHER polyline.

 

[fcernst]

Jeff,

I just did a quck test in 2015 SP1 with a short polyline conditional target and it works by itself in the Found condition.

[Jay_B]

@doni49 wrote:

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As far as C3D knows, this is just another conditional.  You could just as easily have one conditional that targets a polyline and then another that targets ANOTHER polyline.

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In the workflow described in my previous post, where there are 2 separate subassemblies representing a "Found" & "Not Found" condition that's not true.

At least with 2014 SP2, BOTH the "Found" & "Not Found" targets must be set for the same polyline or I'll end up with sections that are double expposed like this:

[fcernst]

Target Found is working in 2014 below. However, I definitely prefer the new target technology in 2015 that automatically samples the ends of the target.

[Jay_B]

Interesting, I don't see that here but it might be because all of my cases have a found / not found scenario.

The ends of all polyline targets automatically get a begin / end corridor frequency applied.

[doni49]

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@Anonymous wrote:

@doni49 wrote:

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As far as C3D knows, this is just another conditional.  You could just as easily have one conditional that targets a polyline and then another that targets ANOTHER polyline.

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In the workflow described in my previous post, where there are 2 separate subassemblies representing a "Found" & "Not Found" condition that's not true.

At least with 2014 SP2, BOTH the "Found" & "Not Found" targets must be set for the same polyline or I'll end up with sections that are double expposed like this: 

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That's exactly right -- it sees them both as two separate conditionals (which is what I said).  It's basically like saying the following:

If (distanceToTarget < 10ft, showAssembly());
if(NOT(distanceToTarget<10ft,showOtherAssembly());

What you're looking for would be more like:

If (distanceToTarget < 10ft, showAssembly(), showOtherAssembly());

[Jeff_M]

Fred, not sure what was going on but I'm now able to do this with just the Found CHA sub, just as you are showing. As I mentioned before, I had tried this with the 8' offset (thinking the offset was from the connection point of the Sub), but I'd also tried it with 25' which was always enough to catch all of the polylines (based on offset from the Baseline). It wasn't until I changed the offset to 50' that I saw the correct behavior. Since all I'm doing is adding a subassembly where needed, I don't need the second Sub for the Not Found condition.

[fcernst]

The target offset must be between 25 and 50.

Let's see your offsets in section view at one of those LIDS where you have it working.

[Jeff_M]

Here are 2 sectionviews, one with the LID the other without. All of the defining polylines are drawn as rectangles 6.5' wide with one edge at the lip of gutter. The pavement sections vary between 13' and 22' depending on the street, this is one is using the 13'.