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Civil 3D vs Carlson comparison?

37 REPLIES 37
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Message 1 of 38
deltacoolguy
8264 Views, 37 Replies

Civil 3D vs Carlson comparison?

I have been offered a position with a company.  They tried Civil 3D and didn't care for it, and went with Carlson instead.

 

My experience is with AutoCAD exclusively.  I have many years experience with Land Desktop, and the last two years with Civil 3D.  They feel that, with my LD experience, I should be able to learn and adapt to Carlson pretty quickly.  They say Carlson is very LD-like.  I don't necessarily doubt this, but I would like to get kind of a "heads up" for what some of the differences and similarities are.  (I have not accepted the position yet, but probably will)

 

In searching I found this thread... http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/AutoCAD-Civil-3D/Carlson-Vs-3D/m-p/2514071/highlight/true#M109233

 

...and it has a great wealth of information, but it is also 3.5 years old.  A lot can change in 3 years.  Is the info contained in that thread still pretty accurate?  Or, has the gap narrowed?  Changed in any way?

 

Thanks.

Windows 10-64 Pro
8GB RAM (Home)
12GB RAM (Work)
AutoCAD Civil 3D 2019
37 REPLIES 37
Message 2 of 38
Murph_Map
in reply to: deltacoolguy

Last summer I worked at a survey firm that used Carlson, after 3 months I quit because of it. Now on Carlson defense it was a 2004 version of Carlson and a locked version at that, no way to run lisp or create macros. After using current versions of Civil3D and Map3D there was no way to going back to an outdated software and being happy. So I suggect before you take the position find out what version of Carlson they use, if you are used to all the new features in C3D and AutoCAD you may have a hard time adjusting as well.

Murph
Supporting the troops daily.
Message 3 of 38
Neilw_05
in reply to: deltacoolguy

I haven't kept up with Carlson's development over the years so I can't offer any opinion in that regard. They do post lots of videos demonstrating the functionality of the various modules.

 

What I want to say is, you should take into account your career path in making this decisiion. If you move over to a company that is not using Civil 3D you will find yourself out of the running for jobs that require Civil 3D skills down the road. Just look at the civil job postings on the web and you'll find that the majority require Civil 3D skills. Autodesk is the Microsoft of the design world so you pretty much have to keep current to stay viable in the job market.

 

That said, I'd prefer working with a product that is efficient and enjoyable to work with vs. being trapped in a life of tedium just to stay viable in the job market (that's not meant to be an endorsement or criticism of either product).

Neil Wilson (a.k.a. neilw)
AEC Collection/C3D 2024, LDT 2004, Power Civil v8i SS1
WIN 10 64 PRO

http://www.sec-landmgt.com
Message 4 of 38
sboon
in reply to: Neilw_05

From what I've seen and read Carlson software is aimed at the survey community, and it is very popular there.  Excellent tools for importing, processing and analysis of survey but perhaps not so much for civil design.  The software is available in either an Intellicad or ACad version so you may want to find out which one you'll be using.

 

I believe that you can get a trial download also.

Steve
Expert Elite Alumnus
Message 5 of 38
rkmcswain
in reply to: sboon


@sboon wrote:

From what I've seen and read Carlson software is aimed at the survey community....


...and Mining, and law enforcement.

 

To the OP:

 

Be sure you are comparing apples to apples too. As Murph mentioned, Carlson sells a standalone version built on AutoCAD OEM, which to keep this brief, is a lot like AutoCAD LT.

 

You can't compare Civil 3D to that, nor would I try to compare C3D to the full version of Carlson running on IntelliCAD.

 

What will you be doing with the software? That makes a huge difference when you are comparing the two.

 

 

R.K. McSwain     | CADpanacea | on twitter
Message 6 of 38
deltacoolguy
in reply to: rkmcswain

You all make excellent points.  Especially regarding potential future considerations and which platform.  If all goes as planned I will be receiving a formal job offer tomorrow (Monday), and thus will have a chance for follow-up questions.

 

Windows 10-64 Pro
8GB RAM (Home)
12GB RAM (Work)
AutoCAD Civil 3D 2019
Message 7 of 38
bonobaileys
in reply to: deltacoolguy

Run, you will not like it, it is like land desktop when it first came out, very old school, no intelligence, gets the job done but not in a logical way, still has commands embedded from dos days, Would you like to use the puck or turn your tablet on? crashes. if you run a earthwork or cross section etc and you need to change somethng, start over it just puts dumb lines in the drawing. no one i have talked to could ever explain the scale to me? you cant use annotative text and the settings exist in every menu but are all a little different so you will have no clue what is what, it is a mess of lisp routines thrown together for companies who cannot afford real software. Run

Message 8 of 38
nairb4606
in reply to: sboon

I have used Carlson Survey with AutoCAD embedded for 6 years now, in a survey setting. And most people are correct, it gets the job done. But that being said there is a lot of functionality that you miss and Carlson, in my opinion, is worse than the LT versions of AutoCAD. You cannot run LISP routines and it is Not compatible with anything. If you are looking for a low cost program to just get the job done then go with Carlson, but if you want to move forward with your job I would say look for people that use AutoDesk products.  

 

Carlson Survey with AutoCAD Embedded - 32 bit system only and the AutoCAD they use is at least 4 years old and very limited. Its not compatible with 3rd party software. 

 

If you want to use Bluesky products for alignment sheets or integrate aerials into your projects then you are going to have to find other ways to get those into Carlson. 

 

My opinion Stay with AutoDesk...

Message 9 of 38
tcorey
in reply to: deltacoolguy

I have a little different perspective, being an Autodesk reseller and all.

 

I love seeing the comments others have made regarding the dark side of Carlson. They are our competitor, so we love when they get bad press.

 

That said, I do have one client who subscribes his AutoCAD through us and subscribes to Carlson full package. There is no limitation regarding running LISP routines as they use the full AutoCAD. Whether LISP allows you to access the Carlson objects, I don't know, but you can certainly access all of vanilla AutoCAD.

 

The comment about future job prospects is right on the money. Knowing Civil 3D makes you valuable to many more firms and agencies than does knowing Carlson.

 

Best of luck with your future. If you do take the job, maybe you can report back here in six months and let us know what you think of Carlson.

 



Tim Corey
MicroCAD Training and Consulting, Inc.
Redding, CA
Autodesk Gold Reseller

New knowledge is the most valuable commodity on earth. -- Kurt Vonnegut
Message 10 of 38
rkmcswain
in reply to: tcorey

tcorey wrote:

That said, I do have one client who subscribes his AutoCAD through us and subscribes to Carlson full package. There is no limitation regarding running LISP routines as they use the full AutoCAD.

I know a fairly large survey firm that uses Carlson on top of Civil 3D. Why? Because Carlson absolutely smokes C3D for many survey tasks. In fact, the only reason they use Civil 3D is because many of their clients want deliverables as finished C3D drawings.


Now, having said that... this is a survey only firm. I would say C3D has the upper hand when it comes to engineering drawings/tasks. In general, Carlson's UI/UX is pretty dated and the workflow is very different than C3D.

R.K. McSwain     | CADpanacea | on twitter
Message 11 of 38
TerryDotson
in reply to: nairb4606

You cannot run LISP routines and it is Not compatible with anything.

 

It might be worth noting that these are limitations that Autodesk puts on all OEM packages.  You cannot compare Carlson's lower cost OEM packages to a full Civil3D, nor do they begin to compare in price.  Carlson's OEM package has a good fit with a price point appropriate for some and Autodesk benefits from every one sold.

 

I'm not debating full Carlson -vs- Civil3D, but some of your statements are of an apples <> oranges comparison.

Message 12 of 38

I have quite a bit of experience with both of the full version software. Being a meticulous person I work closely with the Surveyors in the company I work to make sure that the information given to the Architectural/Engineering department is on point. I pride myself on ensuring that the department is as efficient as possible. That being said, Carlson is great for the surveying, mining etc. sector of the profession. Civil 3D is great for the engineering sector. Once the surveyors, is tasked with producing information specifically for engineers then its better to go all out Civil 3D as it makes the process much smoother. Not that one is better than the other but each has its place.  

Message 13 of 38
burrWWJVB
in reply to: deltacoolguy

I'll give a different perspective seeing that this forum is obviously skewed toward AutoDesk (kind of like going to an Apple forum and asking how they compare to Windows PCs)

 

I'm a self-employed Civil Engineer who designs new roads, existing road rehabs, commercial site plans, drainage/utility plans, etc. I don't do residential.

 

I use Carlson Civil 2017 with AutoCAD 2017 (I don't use the free IntelliCad engine that is offered with Carlson) and I switched from Land Desktop 10+ years ago. Most of the above comments are misinformed. With Carlson, you can design smart roads with plan views, profiles, cross-sections, and intersections all coupled to together. Because I run Carlson on the AutoCAD engine, I can (and do) use annotative text, LSP files, and all AutoCAD commands (not Civil3D commands). With one button you can switch from the Carlson menu to AutoCAD menu. I find the 3D polyline approach very intuitive and it allows for automated grading and very buildable designs. Carlson Civil is geared toward engineers, but has full point and surface-model functionality. They have other programs geared to surveyors such Carlson Survey, others toward construction layout and grade-control of heavy equipment that used by most big contractors in my areas, and software for using LiDAR, drone-photos, and Google surfaces (blows my mind). 

 

While I'm very pleased with Carlson, it does have some flaws...

1) It's not immune to crash once in a while, such as when I "machine-gun" the Undo command. 

2) I'm still unable to have the automatic road-road intersection grading come out exactly as I want it (I have to fine-tune it manually at the end).

3) Sometimes the grading is a little jagged on curves/bends which may be caused by me I'm not using the correct smoothing settings.

 

A few huge perks for me are:

1) Unlimited, free telephone support during business hours. Even though I have an AutoCAD maintenance subscription, I call Carlson first - even with AutoCAD questions, because I can get an immediate answer instead of AutoCAD's e-mail and wait which takes days to resolve something.

2) You can still buy Carlson software instead of having to rent it like AutoCAD.

3) Carlson's software and maintenance is about 1/3 the cost of AutoCAD. I see more and more medium-sized firms switching to Carlson due to cost. I would assume that Civil3D is more powerful, but Carlson does what I need and more.

4) If you think of a new useful command, you can send the request to Carlson and they often incorporate it into the next version. Really, they do.

Message 14 of 38
Neilw_05
in reply to: burrWWJVB

Thank you for providing feedback from first hand experience. When I ran a demo of Carlson some years ago, the software was dependent on many files to store the various surfaces, settings, and more. In larger firms projects often require exchanging models with other team members and consultants. With so many external files to share and keep synchronized I thought this would be problematic. Of course being a solo operation you may not have an issue with this, but perhaps you do. Any thoughts on this?

Neil Wilson (a.k.a. neilw)
AEC Collection/C3D 2024, LDT 2004, Power Civil v8i SS1
WIN 10 64 PRO

http://www.sec-landmgt.com
Message 15 of 38
rkmcswain
in reply to: Neilw_05

Neilw wrote:

....Carlson ... was dependent on many files to store the various surfaces, settings, and more. In larger firms projects often require exchanging models with other team members and consultants. With so many external files to share and keep synchronized I thought this would be problematic.

Yes, you are correct. Carlson generally relies on the user to keep track of coordinate files, centerline files, etc., etc.

I could see this being an issue for long time LDT/Civil 3D users, as they do not have to deal with this. I would think as long as there is an organized file system (DWG files go here, Other files go here, etc) - then it shouldn't be that big of a deal to get people to go along with it. If you just turn them loose with no direction, then you'll probably get data files scattered everywhere from your network to the user's desktop.

R.K. McSwain     | CADpanacea | on twitter
Message 16 of 38
Neilw_05
in reply to: rkmcswain

Even if an in-house system is set up to keep the files synchronized, other firms are not likely to have a similar structure. In that scenario it seems to me it would still be problematic when exchanging project data. Of course this only applies in a theoretical world where Carlson is more universally implemented. How it would work when sharing with firms not using Carlson is probably even more of an issue. I suppose it would all be done via LandXML. Maybe that would work when sharing Carlson to Carlson too. Still not ideal since many settings are not translated via XML.

Neil Wilson (a.k.a. neilw)
AEC Collection/C3D 2024, LDT 2004, Power Civil v8i SS1
WIN 10 64 PRO

http://www.sec-landmgt.com
Message 17 of 38
rkmcswain
in reply to: Neilw_05

I think the global answer is... "it depends".

If I create a DWG file in Carlson that contains points, surfaces, alignments, and maybe other elements - you don't need my separate data files to view (and edit, if you have Carlson too) these features in the DWG file.

In fact, IIRC, (with your own Carlson) you can create your own data files from the objects in the DWG file.

There are a lot of variables here, but I feel like data exchange is easier with Carlson since you don't have proprietary objects that turn into proxies, and you're able to save down to older versions without making the Civil elements unusable too.



R.K. McSwain     | CADpanacea | on twitter
Message 18 of 38
burrWWJVB
in reply to: Neilw_05

For me, it is no problem and seems to work well. As with any design, the
more iterations and refinements, the better it is. However, not all
revisions are better than the last. With the “process road” routine
(manually linking of the road files), you list all the files to be
processed together (e.g., centerline alignment, profile, cross-sections,
superelevation, topsoil/strip removals, etc.), then hit the process button.
So, if I try a new profile or x-section file, I don’t have to save a whole
new CAD file since everything is quickly re-creatable by editing the file
list.

The “roadnet” design option (dynamic linking of road file) allows the road
alignment or profile to be dragged to a new position and everything else
(grading, sections, etc.) is updated automatically/simultaneously. It is
cool, but it’s easier to not notice subtle negative changes elsewhere,
since so much is being done at once. I reserve “roadnet” for projects with
multiple intersections or driveways that need to be designed.
Message 19 of 38
burrWWJVB
in reply to: rkmcswain

It’s no different than filing anything else on your PC. Obviously, if you
have a poor, or no, file system on your PC, it’s going to get messy and
inefficient. It is a non-issue in my opinion.
Message 20 of 38
Neilw_05
in reply to: rkmcswain

Assuming you needed to share your project with another Carlson user, would you have to manually track down and package all the files they would need to recreate the project? On their end would they have to sort all those files to their folder structure to make them per their standards?

Neil Wilson (a.k.a. neilw)
AEC Collection/C3D 2024, LDT 2004, Power Civil v8i SS1
WIN 10 64 PRO

http://www.sec-landmgt.com

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