Civil 3D 2009 vs 2010

[greg.bradley]

Hello,

I have been asked by my managers to research the differences between Civil 3D 2009 and 2010, they would like to know if we should skip 2010 and wait for 2011. I think there must be something out there that can help me explain the differences. I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction. Any help would be great I was looking for some paperwork or list of the major differences, the improvements and possibly problems that come with 2010.

Thanks,

[Anonymous]

The differences between Civil 3d 2009 and 2010:

1.) 2010 contains the first Civil 3d Ribbon UI. I am sure it is here to
stay.
2.) SI units are now available in the Hydraflow tools.
3.) Intersections tool in 2010.
4.) The Subscription Pack for 2010 contains a ton of new functionality.
and there are a ton more improvments, bug fixes, and improvements beyond
the latest 2009 service pack.

Should you wait? Probably not if this is the direction you are headed.
There are a lot of firms that run a version out. What are you coming from?

Are there problems? Sure, but 2010 has a lot less than a few versions ago.

Matthew Anderson, PE



greg.bradley@progeng.net wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I have been asked by my managers to research the differences between Civil 3D 2009 and 2010, they would like to know if we should skip 2010 and wait for 2011. I think there must be something out there that can help me explain the differences. I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction. Any help would be great I was looking for some paperwork or list of the major differences, the improvements and possibly problems that come with 2010.
>
> Thanks,
>

[greg.bradley]

Hello,

Thanks for the quick reply, we have been slowing introducing Civil 3D we started with 2007 which never got used, Then we got 2008 which we used more and began to set up styles in this version. We have now implimented with the intention that all new projects are to be done using 2009. We just want to make sure that we are not wasting time using 2009 and should just make the jump to 2010.

Is there any literature possibly a list to indicate the major changes other than what you have already listed?

Thanks,
Greg

[Anonymous]

2010 is a new drawing format...

http://www.graphics-solutions.com/WhitePapers/An%20Important%20Word%20about%20the%202010%20Software.pdf

"...intelligent objects become smarter in later releases and smarter objects cannot be converted back to a previous release even through the 'Save As' process."

Intelligent objects can be up converted but cannot be down converted.

My general sense is, if you're into transportation 2010 has some nice features 2009 doesn't. If you're mainly civil/site/forcemain work, it's not much of an improvement.

-------------------
here's the info on the subscription advantage pack for 2010 that isn't available for 2009

Point Clouds, Roundabout Layout, and General Enhancements

Extend the capabilities of AutoCAD® Civil 3D® 2010 software with the following features:

Point Clouds—Import and visualize large sets of point cloud data, such as 3D laser scanning/LiDAR data sets with millions of points, in AutoCAD Civil 3D 2010 with the Point Clouds feature. The point cloud feature enables you to:

* Import LiDAR data in LAS format and all point file formats supported by AutoCAD Civil 3D 2010
* Visualize large point clouds in 3D
* Stylize point data based on LAS classifications, RGB, elevation, and intensity
* Filter point data by style
* Snap to points within the point cloud using standard AutoCAD® software tools

Some common uses of LiDAR data in AutoCAD Civil 3D 2010 may include using the point cloud data for site surveys, developing an understanding of the site context, and digitizing as-built features (for example, building footprints and curbs) for design projects.

Roundabout Layout—More quickly lay out roundabouts, including signage and striping, based on common design standards using the Roundabout Layout feature. Once the horizontal geometry of a roundabout has been defined, you can dynamically move and edit the roundabout throughout the optimization process.

General Enhancements—Streamline existing workflows in AutoCAD Civil 3D 2010 with a variety of powerful enhancements for transportation design, survey, visual analysis, and general production. Capabilities include:

Transportation Design Tools

* Best-fit alignment creation tool
* Split (create subset) alignment
* Join profile tangents (extend tangents to point of vertical intersection [PVI] by grade intersection)
* Set PVI by elevation and grade
* Create spiral by sweep angle
* Import superelevation from Microsoft® Office Excel® files (XLS)

Survey Tools

* Crossing breakline utility
* Survey import (TSS format support)
* Survey change report
* Survey point and chain edit utility

Visual Analysis Tools

* “Drive Along” visualization
* Line-of-site analysis
* Vertical distance analysis

General Production Tools

* Save as DGN format
* Create surface from GIS data
* Zoom to point
* Calculate minimum vertical distance between surfaces
* Calculate minimum vertical distance between entities
* Divide/crop surface (create subset for use in other drawings)

[Anonymous]

2010 SP2 includes performance fixes that are undocumented as well. I don't
see any point using 2009 when you can be using 2010. Unless the DWG format
change is a problem.

--

Matt Kolberg
GCS - A Division of Cansel


wrote in message
news:6307233@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hello,

Thanks for the quick reply, we have been slowing introducing Civil 3D we
started with 2007 which never got used, Then we got 2008 which we used more
and began to set up styles in this version. We have now implimented with the
intention that all new projects are to be done using 2009. We just want to
make sure that we are not wasting time using 2009 and should just make the
jump to 2010.

Is there any literature possibly a list to indicate the major changes other
than what you have already listed?

Thanks,
Greg

[klugb]

I would like to add the love/hate with the ribbon.
Starting from scratch it will take some time getting used to the ribbon, but after you have data (or converting a 2009 drawing) the context specific ribbon is an overwhelming production improvement.

If you haven't seen how it works, when you grip a C3D object like a surface the ribbon changes to show only the commands that pertain to surface models.
I also agree that it is a lot more stable than the 2009 version. It's a little biased though because 2009 is on 4GB Ram and XP 32-bit, but the 2010 is on 8GB ram and XP 64-bit.

Bruce

[Neilw_05]

I found the ribbon to be quite disorientating when I first experienced it. The biggest annoyance was having my tool bar context change whenever I picked a cad element. While that can be useful most of the time, it also can also be disorienting and counter productive. For example, I often pick an element and then look to the tool bar to find out what it's properties are, such as layer, color, linetype, etc. With the ribbon, by default, it changes context when you pick an element, loading the tool bars for editing the type of element selected. The result is all the properties tool bars disappear, which leaves you searching for the tab that has the element properties too bars.

I found that by changing a variable we can have the benefits of the contextual tabs of the ribbon without the disorientation that so many users experience. The variable is RIBBONSELECTCONTEXT=0. This setting stops the ribbon from changing it's tab content when you pick an element. For example, if you have the ribbon tab set to home and pick an element, the ribbon tab remains at the home tab, which includes the properties tool bars. At the same time, an additional contextual tab appears (highlighted in green) for the type of element selected, such as a feature line for example. Thus if you only wanted to view or edit the properties of the selected element, you would have those tools available since you were on the Home tab when you picked the element..the tab didn't change. However if you indeed wanted the contextual ribbon for the element, just pick the highlighted (green) tab and you then have all the editing tools available for that element. Once you are done with the edits, the ribbon switches back to the tab you had active before (i.e. the Home tab) selecting the element (the Home tab).

This to me is a way to benefit from the Ribbon without the disorientation that so many users find disruptive.

[BrianHailey]

I would have to disagree with you Neil. I personally like having the ribbon change to the Context Sensitive Ribbon Tab (CSRT). If I'm going to want to see the properties of an object, I'll just leave on my quick properties. That's another thing about 2010 that I really like, the Quick Properties (QP). Select an object and a lot of the most commonly looked at properties are available on the QP, INCLUDING STYLES! Combine that with the CSRT and you get a WBOL (whole bunch of liking).

Now, I do want to preface this with the fact that this is personal preference and, although I disagree with Neil, there is nothing wrong with the way he chooses to do things, other then the fact that since I'm cool, the way I do it must be right.

Brian Hailey
http://www.cad-1.com
http://www.AtYourDeskTraining.com

[Anonymous]

Yes you're cool..no question about that. But really, I like to tell the
software what I want, not the other way around.The default Ribbon setting
tends to take that control away. In effect, Autocad is trying to think for
you. Sometimes it is right, sometimes not. The variable I mentioned leaves
you in control. Sure it can be one more pick, but it can save you several
picks if Autocad's choice isn't what you wanted. In effect it turns the
ribbon into a categorized container for your tool bars, which is what I have
wanted all along.



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The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

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[Sinc]

I have another way of dealing with the issue you mention. Since the only thing that really bugs me about the CS Ribbon is the loss of the layer stuff, I actually have the old-style layer toolbar on my screen. This has the added benefit that it still lists layers in the "usual order", unlike the Layer panel in the Ribbon, which sorts layers in a different (and annoying) order.

I actually have one layer of toolbars right under my Ribbon. It doesn't include a lot of stuff, but it has some handy things. In addition to the old-style Layer toolbar, I also have a custom Layer toolbar with some more items in it (things like a button that does "Thaw and Turn On All Layers"), as well as a set of toolbar buttons that set my OSNAPS to my favorite values, and a few other things.

It took me a while to get used to the Ribbon, and I still think the layout needs work. But I've grown to favor the Ribbon. I haven't been a big fan of Quick Properties - I find that little QP dialog box gets in the way more than anything, and I typically don't use it. But after several months of being on the fence about the Ribbon, I think I'm growing to favor it. Lately, when I'm working in C3D 2009, I've even found myself looking for the Ribbon, and am disappointed that it isn't there.

-- Sinc
http://www.ejsurveying.com
http://www.quuxsoft.com

[Anonymous]

> I would have to disagree with you Neil. I personally like having the ribbon
> change to the Context Sensitive Ribbon Tab (CSRT). If I'm going to want to
> see the properties of an object, I'll just leave on my quick properties.
> That's another thing about 2010 that I really like, the Quick Properties
> (QP). Select an object and a lot of the most commonly looked at properties
> are available on the QP, INCLUDING STYLES! Combine that with the CSRT and
> you get a WBOL (whole bunch of liking).
>
> Now, I do want to preface this with the fact that this is personal preference
> and, although I disagree with Neil, there is nothing wrong with the way he
> chooses to do things, other then the fact that since I'm cool, the way I do
> it must be right.
>


After reading Neils post I wanted to start c3d and change RSC to zero,
but than I read yours and since i am cool too and tend to be even
cooler I chosed not to start c3d and not to change RSC to 0.

[BrianHailey]

So, I decided to create a little video showing how I like to have my UI set up. I use the CSRT because it's there but I love my quick properties and hopefully this video will show why. The one thing I can't stand about the QP is that is always pops up in the spot I'm trying to look at so I change it to a static location mode. One thing that annoys me about the CSRT is the layer thing like Sinc mentioned so I add my layers pulldown to the QAT (quick access toolbar).

http://screencast.com/t/NjdjZjA2N2It

Brian Hailey
http://www.cad-1.com
http://www.AtYourDeskTraining.com

[Anonymous]

I learned something from that, Brian, thanks for sharing. I'd disabled QP's
just because they seemed more annoying than anything. I will be giving them
another chance now. I also learned that you are not an artist, but the
smiley's still got the point across 🙂

Jeff

"BrianHailey" wrote in message news:6307489@discussion.autodesk.com...
> So, I decided to create a little video showing how I like to have my UI
> set up. I use the CSRT because it's there but I love my quick properties
> and hopefully this video will show why. The one thing I can't stand about
> the QP is that is always pops up in the spot I'm trying to look at so I
> change it to a static location mode. One thing that annoys me about the
> CSRT is the layer thing like Sinc mentioned so I add my layers pulldown to
> the QAT (quick access toolbar).
>
> http://screencast.com/t/NjdjZjA2N2It
>
> Brian Hailey
> http://www.cad-1.com
> http://www.AtYourDeskTraining.com

[BrianHailey]

> {quote:title=Guest wrote:}{quote}
>I also learned that you are not an artist, but the smiley's still got the point across 🙂
>
> Jeff

That's why I went to engineering school and not architectural school.

Brian Hailey
http://www.cad-1.com
http://www.AtYourDeskTraining.com

[Anonymous]

Brian:

I thought your smiley's looked as good as some of my home made icons. Keep
up the good work.
Now "Jeffrey", we need to talk!



Bill

wrote in message news:6307527@discussion.autodesk.com...
> {quote:title=Guest wrote:}{quote}
>I also learned that you are not an artist, but the smiley's still got the
>point across 🙂
>
> Jeff

That's why I went to engineering school and not architectural school.

Brian Hailey
http://www.cad-1.com
http://www.AtYourDeskTraining.com

[aflewelling]

Hey Brian -- what screen markup tool are you using in those screencasts? I've got one from Wacom, but I don't like it. It looks like you can switch from the Windows Pointer to the screen markup tool instantly with some keystroke -- I can't do that with Wacom software.

thanks
-Anton

[BrianHailey]

e-pointer
http://www.foredu.com/e-pointer/

It's not free but it's only $45 for a single license. Well worth it if you do a lot of presenting. I can't imagine presenting without it (or something comparable).

Also, if you do a lot of screen capturing, I wrote up an article for my blog you may find interesting: http://civil3dplus.wordpress.com/2009/12/21/screen-capture-options/

Brian Hailey
http://www.cad-1.com
http://www.AtYourDeskTraining.com
http://Civil3DPlus.wordpress.com