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Changing precision of elevations referenced by Surface grade label

12 REPLIES 12
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Message 1 of 13
bcsurvey
6514 Views, 12 Replies

Changing precision of elevations referenced by Surface grade label

This is weird. 

 

So I need all sidewalk cross-grades to be at or below 2% for A.D.A. purposes on an as-built.  However, there are elevations at one spot out of the entire project that, when set to a precision of 0.000 gives a grade just ABOVE the 2%.  However, setting the precision to 0.00 gives 2% on the money (2.00%).  Normally you'd be able to omit this exact spot and not worry about it since it's a small fraction above what's acceptable.  But the geometry is such that I need the label here.  When it comes to liability in this area (A.D.A.:  Americans with Disabilities Act) licensed engineers don't mess around.  So I need to get this Murphy's Law anomaly worked out.

 

Now, I've changed the cogo point elevation precision to 0.00 everywhere I can think to change it, so that it shows up this way under point lists, point groups, etc.  But when I hover over the point in model space and it then displays a vertical list of a bunch of attributes, the elevation precision is 0.000.  Obviously it is this elevation that the surface grade label is using to figure the output.  So my question is:

 

How do I change the elevations that the surface slope labels are using to calculate the grade?  I.E.  How do I change the precision of elevations that appear when hovering over a cogo point?

 

Need it soon!

 

Thanks!

Civil 3D 2019 (6.1)
Windows 10 Pro (21H2)
(i7-11850H @ 2.50 GHz)
32GB RAM
NVIDIA RTX A2000
12 REPLIES 12
Message 2 of 13
enderak
in reply to: bcsurvey

Well, the decimal places shown in the cogo point rollover tip is controlled by the AutoCAD drawing units (type in "UNITS").

 

If that doesn't work, can you change the rounding from Normal to Truncate? (Maybe make a special label style for this so you don't alter your other labels)

 

Worst case, I would make the label, explode it, then change the text. If they complain, ask them how the contractor is going to lay out the sidewalk to within a few thousandths of elevation, let alone construct it to that kind of tolerance. Chasing thousandths is an exercise in futility.

 

Message 3 of 13
Sinc
in reply to: bcsurvey


@bcsurvey wrote:

 

How do I change the elevations that the surface slope labels are using to calculate the grade?  I.E.  How do I change the precision of elevations that appear when hovering over a cogo point?

 



The precision in the tool tips should be controlled by the Ambient Settings in your Drawing Settings.  Different elements have different settings.  The Cogo Point Elevations should be controlled by Drawing Settings -> Ambient Settings -> Elevation -> Precision.

 

Changing the value used to calculate the grade is a bit trickier.  Typically, the raw values are used for the math, then the rounding is applied to the result when displaying the slope in a label.  You can typically override this behavior with an Expression that applies the desired rounding.

Sinc
Message 4 of 13
bcsurvey
in reply to: bcsurvey

I tried the UNITS command which I had accessed before through the Format/Units path but hadn't thought to change it since I hadn't considered elevations to be a "distance".  This DID change the precision of the rollover elevations, but the output grade was the same, even using truncated rounding (truncated reduced the output by 0.01%).  This is an as-built, not design.  So the sidewalk's been built, it'll just need the engineer's John Hancock.  Exploding would have been a perfectly viable option, IMO as a non-engineer.  But I wanted to be able to say that I did not overwrite data, which in this case means avoiding any discontinuities at the most basic level, the raw data.  To me, automated rounding of the data is acceptable. 

 

It is the raw elevations that are being used, as Sinc mentioned.  Expressions were the answer:

 

(((ROUND({Surface Slope Elevation 1st Point}*100))/100)-(

(ROUND({Surface Slope Elevation 2nd Point}*100))/100))/

(ROUND({Surface Slope Distance}))

 

This results in raw elevations at ANY precision being rounded to 0.00 precision, and the distance between them being rounded to it's integer, the resultant grade being just what I needed!

 

I actually made seperate expressions for rounding the elevations to 0.00, but for the sake of showing it all here, I showed all definitions.

 

Hope this helps someone in the future!

Civil 3D 2019 (6.1)
Windows 10 Pro (21H2)
(i7-11850H @ 2.50 GHz)
32GB RAM
NVIDIA RTX A2000
Message 5 of 13
Sinc
in reply to: bcsurvey

How are you getting UNITS to affect the precision of the rollover tips?  For me, UNITS has no effect.  I set the precision in Drawings Settings -> Ambient Settings.

 

Are we talking about the same tooltips?  I know core Autocad has tooltips, and Civil 3D has tooltips, and frankly, Autodesk has even me confused as to what's going on now.

Sinc
Message 6 of 13
bcsurvey
in reply to: Sinc

If it helps, I'm using C3D 2010, although I don't think that would matter with something as fundamental as the UNITS command.  All I can say other than that is maybe what you're calling tooltips are not what I'm getting when I hover over a cogo point.  To throw the kitchen sink at it, here's a list of everything I get:

Number

Layer

Desc

Easting

Northing

Elevation

Grid Easting

Grid Northing

Lat

Long

Scale Factor

Convergence

Raw Desc.

Linetype

Linetype Scale

 

Setting TOOLTIPS variable to 0 doesn't seem to change anything.

Civil 3D 2019 (6.1)
Windows 10 Pro (21H2)
(i7-11850H @ 2.50 GHz)
32GB RAM
NVIDIA RTX A2000
Message 7 of 13
enderak
in reply to: bcsurvey

Sinc, I'm looking at rollover tips in Civil 3D 2012 where you just hover over the point without selecting it (see attached image).

 

The image is with the AutoCAD UNITS for distance set at 4. If I change this to 2 places, the rollovertip only shows 2 decimal places for elevation. I assume this is because core AutoCAD doesn't use the term "elevation", just distance in the Z direction. (although they do use the command ELEV and the variable ELEVATION to set your current Z value... and the help files seem to use "elevation" freely to describe the Z value)

 

If I select the point and bring up the Quick Properties box, I get two places,which is controlled by the ambient settings.

 

bcsurvey, thanks for posting that. I think that as automatic labeling becomes more widely used, this problem is going to become more common. I like the idea of having the labels calculate their values the same way an engineer with a set of plans and calculator would (i.e. from values that have been rounded to 2 places)

Message 8 of 13
OMCUSNR
in reply to: bcsurvey

I guess I'm a little confused (that happens easily for me).

 

We're talking an As-built paper drawing here, right?  It's a label, right?  Does the agency require that grade labels be precise to 2 decimal places?  Are you using one point grade or 2 point gade labels?

 

If'n it were me, I'd just set the LABEL precision to interger, and call it good.

 

Or did I miss something entirely?

 

Reid

Homebuilt box: I5-2500k, MSI P67A-GD65, 12gig DDR3 1600 ram, ASUS ENGTX460 Video card, WD Velociraptor WD4500HLHX HD, Win 7 64 pro.
Message 9 of 13
bcsurvey
in reply to: bcsurvey

Reid,

     I am using 2-point grade labels (made a macro to avoid having to go through the Labels panel, then "T" for two-point, which got annoying).  Apparently there were some places along the sidewalk that had to be replaced due to grade out of ADA tolerance.  With that in the construction history, the required precision on cross-slopes went up (or so I thought).  Max allowable is 2%, and this particular point, I got to display as 2.00%.  As you can see in my previous post of the expression I used, I did use ROUND to establish the output.  But it's what one would get anyway when starting with elevation precision of 0.00.

 

Hell's Bells - the boss just said that we won't be putting the grade labels on the final as-built, just the elevations shots, so that the engineer can calculate each set of elevations for grade.  So this entire thread was only for educational purposes.  At least I'll be ready for next time!

Civil 3D 2019 (6.1)
Windows 10 Pro (21H2)
(i7-11850H @ 2.50 GHz)
32GB RAM
NVIDIA RTX A2000
Message 10 of 13
BrianHailey
in reply to: bcsurvey


@bcsurvey wrote:

I actually made seperate expressions for rounding the elevations to 0.00, but for the sake of showing it all here, I showed all definitions.


Just FYI, when dragging a label style from one drawing to another and if it has nested expressions (like you mentioned you did), the nested expressions do not come along for the ride. Well, at least they didn't in 2010. Haven't tried it since then but as you mentioned you are on 2010...

Brian J. Hailey, P.E.



GEI Consultants
My Civil 3D Blog

Message 11 of 13
Sinc
in reply to: enderak


@enderak wrote:

Sinc, I'm looking at rollover tips in Civil 3D 2012 where you just hover over the point without selecting it (see attached image).

 

The image is with the AutoCAD UNITS for distance set at 4. If I change this to 2 places, the rollovertip only shows 2 decimal places for elevation. I assume this is because core AutoCAD doesn't use the term "elevation", just distance in the Z direction. (although they do use the command ELEV and the variable ELEVATION to set your current Z value... and the help files seem to use "elevation" freely to describe the Z value)

 

If I select the point and bring up the Quick Properties box, I get two places,which is controlled by the ambient settings.

 



Thus my confusion...

 

For the attached image, I went into Ambient Settings and set Coordinate precision to 1 and Elevation precision to 3.  I then went into UNITS and set precision to 5.  Note how the Tooltips are using the 1 and 3 from the Ambient Settings, and NOT the 5 from UNITS.

 

If you are seeing UNITS have an effect, then there must be yet another setting somewhere.  Thus my comment about how confusing this has become.

 

Tooltips.png

Sinc
Message 12 of 13
jtomlinson
in reply to: Sinc

I have an issue is very similar to this thread so I thought I'd tack mine on...

 

Trying to change the precision for the Grade In/Grade Out columns in the Profile Grid View.  The ambient settings for Grade do not seem to have any effect on these columns.  Profile Grade labels are set to 3 in the style, no problems there.  I want the precision for Grade In/Grade Out in the Profile Grid View to be 3...does anyone know how to accomplish this?

 

JT

C3D 2012
Core i7 720QM
Windows 7 x64
8GB RAM


Message 13 of 13
jtomlinson
in reply to: jtomlinson

UPDATE:

 

Ambient settings > Grade worked perfectly in C3D 2012.  Profile Grid View reflected the new precision immediately.

 

Still no luck in 2011 however...

 

 

JT

C3D 2012
Core i7 720QM
Windows 7 x64
8GB RAM


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