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For total earth work:
Create existing ground surface EG
Create future ground surface FG
Create a volume surface EG = base FG = comparison, volume tab give totals.
If you have pavements, sidewalks , foundations etc, you can manually add then up and increase the cut value obtained in the volume surface
Create existing ground surface EG
Create future ground surface FG
Create a volume surface EG = base FG = comparison, volume tab give totals.
If you have pavements, sidewalks , foundations etc, you can manually add then up and increase the cut value obtained in the volume surface
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Hi Fred
Total Earthwork algebra: F-C = total export/ import
If pavement and or sidewalk or anything is below FG and well above EG its volume reduces the amount of fill required, represented as -F, and -F is equivalent to + C. Likewise, anything below FG and below EG increases the cut require, represented as + C
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This logic is only applicable to deduce the net cut or fill- it cannot tell you where the cut and fill is located nor where the zero cut fill line is located.
Assuming cut is +ve and fill is -ve it is simple algebraic logic. The construction volumes are always added to the net volume algebraically.
If the net is +ve adding the construction thickness will increase the cut and if -ve adding will reduce the net volume.
In my experience, consultants simply quote volumes from Egl to FGL which is a total waste of time and gives a distorted picture of earthworks task required
neilyj (No connection with Autodesk other than using the products in the real world)
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I can assert this by the logic of algebra and the typical section shown. Is the logic in the sketch wrong? As stated this tells the total "export or import". My interpertation of what the OP was asking to accomplish.
You can verify it with a differential TIN, but the sketch is a representation of such a TIN and the results change the FG-EG computation the same way; the subrade surface reduces the fill and increases the cut. Its right there in the picture and it the picture of the DTS white papers
We too have provided clients with cut & fill maps, we simply add a little table of manual adjustments. This saves time modeling the subgrade
You can verify it with a differential TIN, but the sketch is a representation of such a TIN and the results change the FG-EG computation the same way; the subrade surface reduces the fill and increases the cut. Its right there in the picture and it the picture of the DTS white papers
We too have provided clients with cut & fill maps, we simply add a little table of manual adjustments. This saves time modeling the subgrade
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No, it only reduces the fill required. We do have to think as well as model
If we have a hole with an empty space volume of 100 cy and we put a 10 cy structure in the bottom of it how many cy yards of fill do we need?
If we have a hole with an empty space volume of 100 cy and we put a 10 cy structure flush with the the bottom of it how many cy yards of fill do we need?
If we have a hole with an empty space volume of 100 cy and we put a 10 cy structure 50% above and below the bottom of it how many cy yards of fill do we need?
I think you will agree that in each case the answer is 90 cy by algebra, DTS, subgrade - EG comparison, etc.
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If the whole site was fill I.e. -ve volume, adding the construction thickness volumes would make the fill volume less negative.
I prefer to model the earthworks outline i.e. subgrade to get an overall earthworks picture
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I prefer to model the earthworks outline i.e. subgrade to get an overall earthworks picture
neilyj (No connection with Autodesk other than using the products in the real world)
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Fred Its a hypothetical example, the structure is just a volume. The volume is the volume no matter how you slice it. I dont care if you use it, but calling it nonsense and poppycock isn't proving the math is wrong. Show me the math that makes it wrong.
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..Show me the math that makes it wrong.
The quickest way I thought to test this was to use a corridor where I could easily create datum and fg surfaces with structures. I used the true (3D) top surface area of the structures, not projected. A 2% cross slope on top of the structures with a mildly undulating longtudinal profile.
It is a 2,926' long straight road covering about 3.5 acres worth of grading. You can see in the report below the road images (FG-EG on the left, Datum-EG on the right), although the net is fairly close the Cut and Fills are not.
The problems I have with this method:
-Need accuracte Cut and Fill numbers for project costs, anticipted work effort, schedule, resources, etc.
-No ability to map Cut and Fill areas, determine if there is rock cut, groundwater issue, reusable soil issues, etc.
-Not sure what the Net Volume error differential will do on larger projects, and with less homogenity. What will it do on 100, 200 or 1,000 acre projects?
So we have an error of plus muinus 5 cy over 3.5 acres. So it works, is that correct?
Your aversion to the process is understandable if you are accustomed to working on sites of 200 ac and more. I know it gives people the willies. And yes, you will not get a C&F map that represents the total earth work or have something to schedule work by. We work on sites considerablt smaller and the contractor typically buys the Earth Work from the grading plan
But this started out by offering the OP a way to get total earth work for their revised grading, which the method does do as your corridor and calculation shows.
Fred have a Happy New Year. I have enjoyed the dialog
Your aversion to the process is understandable if you are accustomed to working on sites of 200 ac and more. I know it gives people the willies. And yes, you will not get a C&F map that represents the total earth work or have something to schedule work by. We work on sites considerablt smaller and the contractor typically buys the Earth Work from the grading plan
But this started out by offering the OP a way to get total earth work for their revised grading, which the method does do as your corridor and calculation shows.
Fred have a Happy New Year. I have enjoyed the dialog
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As I mentioned a few posts ago, this method can onIy give the overall eathworks volumes for a project which can be useful in the early stages but not so much when it comes to costing the project.
AEC Collection 2024 UKIE (mainly Civil 3D UKIE and IW)
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neilyj (No connection with Autodesk other than using the products in the real world)
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I too have been saying that all along. It only computes..... "Total Earth Work" to get total import or export. For the scope of work we do it has worked handily over the years. We do'nt do mass haul and only create cut fill maps for internal use. If we did we would do a datum analysis.
How do you all work drainage structures into your datum surfaces?
for example in our locale we use leaching structures that typically occupy 50-75 cy of space below FG and may have a field of many. For me, doing what I do is accurate enough and quicker. I may get fired if someone saw me creating DDTIN surfaces for 100 drywells.
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I guess you just have to model appropriately for the particular project....;)
AEC Collection 2024 UKIE (mainly Civil 3D UKIE and IW)
Win 11 Pro x64, 1Tb Primary SSD, 1Tb Secondary SSD
64Gb RAM Intel(R) Xeon(R) W-11855M CPU @ 3.2GHz
NVIDIA RTX A5000 16Gb, Dual 27" Monitor, Dell Inspiron 7760
neilyj (No connection with Autodesk other than using the products in the real world)
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AEC Collection 2024 UKIE (mainly Civil 3D UKIE and IW)
Win 11 Pro x64, 1Tb Primary SSD, 1Tb Secondary SSD
64Gb RAM Intel(R) Xeon(R) W-11855M CPU @ 3.2GHz
NVIDIA RTX A5000 16Gb, Dual 27" Monitor, Dell Inspiron 7760
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