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C3D & Infraworks?

13 REPLIES 13
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Message 1 of 14
jmatthei
3363 Views, 13 Replies

C3D & Infraworks?

So, I'm a bit confused: 

 

What's the deal with the new "InfraWorks" thing that Autodesk is promoting so heavily, while clearly not putting much effort into developing Civil3D?  Is it supposed to eventually replace Civil3D?  Is it like a Revit-Civil? Has anybody used it?  Is it worthwhile?

13 REPLIES 13
Message 2 of 14
drp281
in reply to: jmatthei

i think you need to look at the autodesk website and youtube

there is nothing confusing civil 3d and infraworks are 2 separate programs

Message 3 of 14
rkmcswain
in reply to: jmatthei
Message 4 of 14
jmatthei
in reply to: jmatthei

drp:  I am aware that they are two different programs.  Civil 3D and Land Desktop are also separate prograams.  And just like C3D and LDD, C3D and Infraworks seem to have a fair amount of overlapping functionality, including things that are being pushed for Infraworks, that USED to be pushed for Civil3D, but never really worked as well as promised.

 

Given that the changes to Civil 3D have been fairly incremental, and Autodesk is going to great lengths to upsell us on Infraworks, I'm curious what their end-game is.  It doesn't seem like Infraworks is a full-on replacement YET, but it looks like it's building the functionality to do so.  For instance, they mentioned that Infraworks can now do plans and profiles--which is a very C3D-ish thing for them to do.

 

Primarily, I'm wondering whether it's worth our while to get on this Infraworks thing that Autodesk is pushing.  To see whether it makes sense yet in most project scenarios, or only in particular types of projects--and if so what those types of projects are--from people who have used it in the trenches.  Also, if Infraworks IS being designed to replace C3D, then that changes the formula to greater incentivize learning the program, as it will one day be needed for everything--vs. being a program that may have use for in only 10% of our projects.

 

And as a great complainer about the lacking BIM functionality in Civil 3D (a program I could at best only call half-BIM), I'm interested in any improvements that can be made, whether by Autodesk, Bentley, or any other potential vendor.

Message 5 of 14
LeafRiders
in reply to: jmatthei

Autodesk Infrastructure Modeller (2012 and 2013) is equal to the Autodesk Infraworks 2014. For some reason Autodesk likes to market something and then change the name whenever they feel something needs a "fresh look".

 

Infraworks is a conceptual / functional Civil planning tool that is supposed to provide AutoCAD / Civil 3D users a way to give 3D rendering of their project. If you don't require that element of your design, than move on. Sure it's "nice" to see this stuff in some project atmospheres since Civil 3D isn't a visualization tool as those who have tried know it's not worth mucking around with point codes etc.

 

The true visualization tool is 3DS Max, you can do everything in 3DS Max (for the most part). It's a very extensive program. Where Infraworks is a little more "cartoony" than what you can get as an end result using 3DS  Max. 3DS Max has a fairly large learning curve versus Infraworks. I played around with AIM (= Infraworks). It wasn't bad, but it had some quirks in 2012. I'm hoping the Autodesk crew has cleaned things up since then.

 

I can't help but agree with you about the development and advancement of Civil 3D. There are a lot of things the Autodesk crew could be doing to make it better. Support, training, and now the big push to back secondary Civil 3D developers, who have previously worked with Autodesk in some cases. They tend to let these gurus go off on their own and sell their custom tools or provide training. It's getting to the point now where most of the industry goes to these secondary companies more than Autodesk for a hefty add-on price for support, training, and development of tools that work.

 

The scene is every changing. If you're a design guy, fairly cut and dry you will never need Infraworks, nor 3DS Max, if you want to wow some clients, take it on and good luck, I'm sure you'll crash and struggle finding any type of Autodesk training readily available.

Message 6 of 14
neilyj666
in reply to: jmatthei

they just seem to be pushing the "sexy" visuals rather than focussing on the "meat and potatoes".

I suspect that the terrain grading labs tool will reappear in AIM at some point....

neilyj (No connection with Autodesk other than using the products in the real world)
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Message 7 of 14
cpennetti
in reply to: neilyj666

I hope to see that terrain labs show back up in C3D/InfraWorks as well, it would have been the first big step in C3D/BIM for the site/civil group in a long time.

 

I really like InfraWorks, we've started to dig into it more.  It's a good bridge between site planning, GIS, and Visuals.  You can produce a lot of content very quickly with minimal knowledge of GIS, and can push out C3D content to provide quick visuals.  We've modeled a few square miles at a time without an issue, and use it for exhibits during project development.

 

We're working it into our planning process now.  You cant get a deliverable plan out of it, like notes and such, but if you sketch some content in InfraWorks, you can connect to the file (SQLite) though AutCAD Map, which means it's somewhat connected.

 

Honestly, if i could get sheets and some more design tools out of InfraWorks, i'd jump over to that and leave Civil 3D... it just feels like the next generation of design software,

Message 8 of 14
neilyj666
in reply to: cpennetti

I didn't have much of a chance to play with the terrain labs thing but wasn't overly keen on what I did do with it.

I'd be very surprised if it doesn't make a reappearance sometimne in the future

neilyj (No connection with Autodesk other than using the products in the real world)
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Message 9 of 14
Cadguru42
in reply to: neilyj666

Until Autodesk changes from using a TIN model for surfaces I don't see how to make earth moving into a BIM object. Surfaces now don't quite work as it should because a surface can't have a vertical face or overhangs, which is something common in the real world. Solids or a form of polygon modeling similar to 3ds Max/Maya seem to be the way forward in this regard, but base Autocad doesn't really have that ability other than solids, and it's not very intiuitive like 3ds Max/Maya is. 

Perhaps you're correct in thinking that InfraWorks will be the future C3D. After all, it does seem to integrate the different data sets better than C3D does, but doesn't help with design near as much as C3D.

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Message 10 of 14
cpennetti
in reply to: jmatthei

Yeah, i mean with teh 2014 version of InfraWorks they added things like creating pipes and structures (you used ot only be able to import them) and the ultimate suite includes a road plan/profile set of design tools. 

 

What's exciting about a lot of this is that they went from a labs tool in like 2010/2011, to the very cabable 2014 release.  but it does still sit as a half functional civil design / GIS / visualizaiton tool.  But the one thing i think it does better than any current application is hand large amounts of data.  Also, with direct connections to 3ds Max, it allows me to create a more realistic render of city models that have been quicly developed, if i need to.

Message 11 of 14
AllenJessup
in reply to: cpennetti


@cpennetti wrote:

Yeah, i mean with teh 2014 version of InfraWorks they added things like creating pipes and structures (you used ot only be able to import them) and the ultimate suite includes a road plan/profile set of design tools. 


It looks like with Ultimate you get the Autodesk Roads and Highways Module for InfraWorks,
and Autodesk River and Flood Analysis Module.

 

I haven't found out exactly that Roads and Highways does.

 

Allen Jessup



Allen Jessup
Engineering Specialist / CAD Manager

Message 12 of 14
Hammer.john.j
in reply to: AllenJessup

civil 3d was a stop gap solution to modeling and i think if you are savvy, you'll see that civil 3d is the land desktop of tomorrow's yesterday.  Infraworks IS LIKELY to be the design tool of today, tomorrow lol.  Right now it's a fun gadget for visualizations but once everybody can use it, 3DS Max will be your "one upper".

John Hammer, LA/CADD Manager
Message 13 of 14
Joe-Bouza
in reply to: rkmcswain

Thats kind of depressing.
Thank you

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Note: Its all Resistentialism, so keep calm and carry on

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Message 14 of 14
cpennetti
in reply to: AllenJessup

Right, we (civil engineers) dont quite have a Revit Site application, but we're making good use of InfraWorks now that we've found the right application of what it does.  The advancements in InfraWorks makes it really exciting (big leaps from 2014 R1, R2, 360, etc).  It is depressing though that C3D seems to be slowing down, but again, we've accepted what i can and cant do and working fine with it, and we're happy to not be drawing pipes/contours by hand at least.

 

The latest version of InfraWorks that was just announced seems to do a good job of adding some road/bridge design tools, and then connecting with Civil 3D content, so there might be some more opputunity to work in both platforms, using InfraWorks to do conceptual design and communication.  Exciting to see where it's all going.

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