C3D 2015 SP1 - Survey Database Still Broken

[Cadguru42]

The service pack did not fix the corruption that happens to a survey database if it's opened with 2015. All Autodesk did was create a routine that will search the survey database folder and convert all databases opened by 2015 back to ones that can be opened by 2014, but as soon as 2015 opens one it'll be corrupted again. This is a very half-assed workaround that still makes it cumbersome to use C3D 2015 for any survey work. 

[tcorey]

Thanks for posting that. I'm sure most of us agree with you and would prefer the survey database be multi-directional.

I'm not sure Autodesk's reasoning, unless the background software used for the database was updated by some third party developer. Not every tool in AutoCAD and its verticals is written completely by Autodesk. They license other software for certain tools. This could be one of those cases.

Best regards,

Tim

[Cadguru42]

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@tcorey wrote:

Thanks for posting that. I'm sure most of us agree with you and would prefer the survey database be multi-directional.

I'm not sure Autodesk's reasoning, unless the background software used for the database was updated by some third party developer. Not every tool in AutoCAD and its verticals is written completely by Autodesk. They license other software for certain tools. This could be one of those cases.

Best regards,

Tim

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I think it's the SQL database versioning that's causing the issue. Autodesk should have kept the same SQL version between 2013 and 2015, but didn't. 

[tcorey]

What if the newer version of the sql database were to provide significant performance enhancements? Wouldn't that be a good reason for Autodesk to adopt it? Many customers don't share the survey database between versions and would appreciate the extra speed.

[rl_jackson]

Not when they can't even give give us the ability to use Survey Figure Properties to make edits. They have not been able to fix this for 14 or 15. So updating SQL was a phrase with the core commands not working.

[Jeff_M]

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@Anonymous wrote:
Not when they can't even give give us the ability to use Survey Figure Properties to make edits.

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I'm not seeing any issue with editing/deleting from the panorama or editing from Survey Figure Properties with the 2015 SP1 installed.

[rl_jackson]

Thanks Jeff,

Now if the SP fixed all the FDO, WMS and WFS and other issues with Image files in general we'll have it made. And I can request we all upgrade.

[Jeff_M]

If you have the design suite, it appears that the Map3d SP2 can be applied which seems to resolve (according to the readme) a number of issues. Since I don't use any of those mentioned (FDO, WMS, WFS), I have no idea how to test them...

[rkmcswain]

engrtech wrote:

..... but as soon as 2015 opens one it'll be corrupted again.

Although I agree with your general assessment, to be fair, the 2015 format of the survey db is simply that, a different format; there is no "corruption" being introduced here, right?

[AllenJessup]

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@Jeff_M wrote:

If you have the design suite, it appears that the Map3d SP2 can be applied

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Can it be applied to Civil 3D or only to the full version of Map 3D that comes with IDSP?

Allen

[Cadguru42]

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@rkmcswain wrote:

@engrtech wrote:

..... but as soon as 2015 opens one it'll be corrupted again.

Although I agree with your general assessment, to be fair, the 2015 format of the survey db is simply that, a different format; there is no "corruption" being introduced here, right?

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It is not supposed to be a different format. That's why it's a bug. It was not the intention of Autodesk to make the survey database for 2015 incompatible with previous versions. The help never talks about a different format and Autodesk itself says that it's supposed to be compatible with 2013 through 2015 to match the formats. 

[Cadguru42]

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@Jeff_M wrote:

If you have the design suite, it appears that the Map3d SP2 can be applied which seems to resolve (according to the readme) a number of issues. Since I don't use any of those mentioned (FDO, WMS, WFS), I have no idea how to test them...

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Map SP2 can only be applied to Map, not Civil 3D. It doesn't affect C3D's version of Map. 

[rl_jackson]

I just did a fresh install IDSP over the weekend and neither SP of Map was applied. And if that's the case on the C3D side, what's the point of releasing SP1 without it. Dang Adesk.

[rkmcswain]

engrtech wrote:
It is not supposed to be a different format. That's why it's a bug. It was not the intention of Autodesk to make the survey database for 2015 incompatible with previous versions.

It would seem, based on this document which says "Survey databases from versions prior to AutoCAD Civil 3D 2015 will be converted to Microsoft® SQL Server® Compact 3.5." - that 3.5 is some new format. But this is just a repeat of the same document that they have for several previous versions. But it's quite possible that the documentation guys didn't know the format changed or that is a typo. I don't really consider it a bug though. A poorly timed programming decision? Absolutely.

As someone mentioned earlier, it may have been forced on them by a 3rd party developer. Maybe they should start writing this stuff in-house instead...?

... Autodesk itself says that it's supposed to be compatible with 2013 through 2015 to match the formats. 

Are you basing that on the fact that it's not documented here? My guess would be that the doc guys were just not informed.

[Cadguru42]

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@rkmcswain wrote:

@engrtech wrote:
It is not supposed to be a different format. That's why it's a bug. It was not the intention of Autodesk to make the survey database for 2015 incompatible with previous versions.

It would seem, based on this document which says "Survey databases from versions prior to AutoCAD Civil 3D 2015 will be converted to Microsoft® SQL Server® Compact 3.5." - that 3.5 is some new format. But this is just a repeat of the same document that they have for several previous versions. But it's quite possible that the documentation guys didn't know the format changed or that is a typo. I don't really consider it a bug though. A poorly timed programming decision? Absolutely.

As someone mentioned earlier, it may have been forced on them by a 3rd party developer. Maybe they should start writing this stuff in-house instead...?

... Autodesk itself says that it's supposed to be compatible with 2013 through 2015 to match the formats. 

Are you basing that on the fact that it's not documented here? My guess would be that the doc guys were just not informed.

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I'm going by the fact that development said it was a bug when I made a SR about it and they said it was not the intention of the software to behave that way.

[odoshi]

If the docs say the C3D 2015 Survey Database was upgraded to SQL Server Compact 3.5, it is probably a mistake. I think it was upgraded to 4.0, according to these guys:

http://www.thecadmasters.com/wordpress/index.php/2014/06/19/civil-3d-2015-civil-3d-2014-database-sdb...

Also, according to Microsoft, there really isn't much reason to go to 4.0 other than ease of deployment for the installer.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/sqlservercompact/archive/2011/01/12/microsoft-sql-server-compact-4-0-is-avai...

So not really sure why Autodesk did this?????

Regards,

Mike

[Cadguru42]

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@odoshi wrote:

If the docs say the C3D 2015 Survey Database was upgraded to SQL Server Compact 3.5, it is probably a mistake. I think it was upgraded to 4.0, according to these guys:

http://www.thecadmasters.com/wordpress/index.php/2014/06/19/civil-3d-2015-civil-3d-2014-database-sdb...

Also, according to Microsoft, there really isn't much reason to go to 4.0 other than ease of deployment for the installer.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/sqlservercompact/archive/2011/01/12/microsoft-sql-server-compact-4-0-is-avai...

So not really sure why Autodesk did this?????

Regards,

Mike

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It also breaks the backwards compatibility between 2013-2015 that Autodesk brags about. It would be idiotic to have C3D be backwards compatible between those versions, except in 2015 the survey database is treated differently.