C3D 2014 - SP2 Status

[fcernst]

What is the status on releasing SP2 for subscription customers?

We have projects where we need our design capabilities restored. Fixing the Material Quantites routine that was broke with the release of SP1 and median crossing CL issue should be priority.

What is going on with the repair of defects in QTO? I had a couple emails from Tim Yarris of Autodesk last summer saying they were looking to get a fix out to help on our current projects, and then communication just dropped off as usual.

[DarrenP]

we probably won't see a SP2 until after the 2015 products have been released

is my guess

[neilyj666]

That would be my conclusion as well...

[kbiggs]

Ernst:

What is your opinion of 2014? We are on 2012 and am considering upgrading to 2014 to take advantage of the improvements in the pressure pipes, as we have a fair number of watermain projects that is would be beneficial.

Our primary use, though, is for road design, so I am looking for feedback if we should upgrade or stay with 2012.

Regards,

Keith Biggs

Chair, CAD Standards Committee & Senior CAD Technician

R.F. Binnie & Associates Ltd.

Leading in Quality: OQM certified March 2013.

[fcernst]

"...Our primary use, though, is for road design, so I am looking for feedback if we should upgrade or stay with 2012..."

That's a no-brainer. You need to get product (construction plans) out the door and generate revenue for your company to remain vital. You don't want to be constantly breaking down on the side of the road like we are in 2014. There's nothing new here worth allocating your valuable cash resources towards.

I called this the "Emperor's New Clothes" version back in April.

Search my multiple posts prefixed with "Confirmed Defect - ". The product quality control has been horrible, and we as Customers continue to suffer this year, as we did with the wild instability of the 2013 version. There is a Civil 3D leadership crisis that needs to be addressed.

Stay with 2012 until further development.

[dgorsman]

Not all problems affect all users, and not all equally.  For the OP, I recommend you review the software to see if it meets your specific needs.  You might find some workarounds acceptable and some problems irrelevant.  You might find they are full-stop unworkable.  That due dilligence is on you.  One important thing to note is the regular discontinuation of active support as new versions are released.  2012 is slated to be retired in a year or two.  You should be thinking about operating system support - will you be updating to Win 8 or a successor in a few years?  Will your current version of Civil3D be supported on that platform (probably not)?.  Then there is the concern of working with files provided by or to others.  As time goes by more and more work will be required in a newer version, and as we all know version is very important in the vertical programs.

[kbiggs]

Thanks for your comments. I am in the process of installing and evaluating 2014. I will review your confirmed defect posts, thanks for the info. Surprised to see that there are quite a few.

Are there work arounds to resolve these issues? I know we had a few in 2010 and even 2012. Seems to be ocurring with each release. Have to wonder how the DOT's who have signed on with Autodesk are managing these defects.

Keith Biggs Chair,

CAD Standards Committee & Senior CAD Technician

R.F. Binnie & Associates Ltd.

Leading in Quality: OQM certified March 2013.

[neilyj666]

For my particular needs I've found 2014 to be the most stable release yet (grading objects excepted although they are better than previous releases).

I would also agree with fcernst that the QC/QA for each release seems to be lacking - fixing one thing invariably leads to something else breaking.

[MikeEvansUK]

Is there a concise list of 2014 bugs avaliable ?

Can someone post a file detailing the bug description & how to reproduce (work flow) and also any drawings to review pls.

[fcernst]

..we probably won't see a SP2 until after the 2015 products have been released is my guess

..That would be my conclusion as well...

That's horrible on the part Civil 3D Management to abandon their commitment to software purchased by subscription Customers. There are broken design tools in 2014 that need to be addressed for design shops to use the software effectively, and harvest value from their investment.

We have seen little to no value using 2014 due to the lack of coherent product support. The software could not be implemented by firms at release due to the inexplicably non-working Section Editor. Then HF1 and SP1 did not address many items, and clumsily broke other items in the software.  

[fcernst]

"...As time goes by more and more work will be required in a newer version, and as we all know version is very important in the vertical programs..."

I would not be swayed or frightened into making a poor strategic financial decision by the "Version" talk. 

We deal daily with survey firms using LDD 2004. Competing Civil engineering firms don't typically share Corridor designs, etc. with each other.

Typical example: On one one oil terminal project, we worked with one of the large international Civil Engineering prime contractors. We were the Civil and they were doing the structural and industrial/piping design work. Their departments were using AutoCAD 2007 and were were in 2012. We had to provide digital plan grading and drainage information (no C3D objects) to them by converting back to 2007 format during the design phase. We were responsible for getting the Civil plans produced and out the door (with our company Border) for the energy client.

We generated a lot of revenue using LDD 2 and LDD 2004 from 2002 to 2011. I did not decide to switch to C3D until 2011.  

I think the OP's firm, that mainly does road design work, could generate good revenue using 2012 for at least the next 5 years, if not 10 years. It's about getting product out the door for design shops.

The Civil 3D Management team has to earn our business by allocating resources to produce new innovative design routines to justify new purchases.

There is so mouch to do: they need to get drainage back into model space, HEC-22 HGL/EGL calcualtions into Pipe Networks, integrate the Corridor object into drainage, provide Feature Line baseline control of Corridor objects for easier site grading implementation, fix QTO, fix the growing list of Confirmed Defects, create and implement a successful product Quality Control program, achieve much better response time to Product Defect resolution, etc....

[ksorsby]

Even basic stuff like getting the analysis range calculator to be correct (type in 16 ranges to get 9!!!), allowing surface names in surface table headers, and getting the feature line set-grade-slope-between-points to work correctly and both ways round.

While we're wishing for things, how about being able to enter slope values rather than %ages into the profile edit panorama. ;o)

Kevin

[fcernst]

"... I will review your confirmed defect posts, thanks for the info. Surprised to see that there are quite a few....."

Perusing this collection you will see there are defects with the Rehab subassemblies. The major defect regarding the inability to create correct Mill and Level shapes was noted first by a Customer back in 2006. This defect has gone unaddressed by Civil 3D management since then.

"...Have to wonder how the DOT's who have signed on with Autodesk are managing these defects..."

For example, CalTrans has the resources available through taxpayer funding to hire Autodesk to create effective custom Rehab subassemblies for their use. That's an additional revenue stream for Autodesk.

That's fine for them, however, it is not acceptable to leave us on the private side with defective Rehab subassemblies. We have paid a fair price for the software, with Warranty. Due to the overwhelming backlog of unaddressed product defects, the Civil 3D Senior Product Manager is continually perceived as aloof and disinterested in the well-being of his private Customers.

A couple months back, he essentially threw his hands up in the air by stating in this forum that their product quality control testing is in the hands of a "Third-Party", seemingly trying to absolve himself of any personal responsibility and accountability.

This is where the senior product leadership is failing us in tremendous fashion.

[mathewkol]

Keith, another thing to consider is whether any of your users will be using Windows 8 or 8.1. Very many users have a difficult or impossible time using C3D 2012 on Windows 8. I have not actually heard of anyone successfully using 2012 on that OS, not to say that it can't be done. It seems to run fine for a whiel then dies after a few minutes. 2014 seems to run fine on Win 8.

[pendean]

If purchasing a solution is an option, there is a third party tool called LONGBOW that has successfully so far allowed the installation and use of older AutoCAD and it's variants on unsupported newer Windows Operating Systems. They even promise a refund if yours fails. Explore it.

[rkmcswain]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

Is there a concise list of 2014 bugs avaliable ?

---

Here is one.

Concise? Yes.

Complete? Not at all, but I will gladly update this as needed, just send me your input.

[fcernst]

Last May I started posting confirmations of software defects from my support cases. I prefix the subject line with "Confirmed Defect" to facilitate User searching. 

Just before that I started investigationg QTO for our use on a project and found three confirmed defects that I show the support cases for below. Justin Ralston found a fourth issue, shown below the support cases.

Please add these to your list.

[kbiggs]

Thanks Fred,

Keith Biggs

Chair, CAD Standards Committee & Senior CAD Technician

R.F. Binnie & Associates Ltd.

Leading in Quality: OQM certified March 2013.

[rkmcswain]

Fred, I think I got most of your reports added. I was unsure of the affected version for many. Feel free to let me know and I will update it.

[fcernst]

All 2014. Others may want to verify if the defects are present in earlier versions, with the following caveat:

The defects with QTO and the Rehab subasssemblies were discovered using C3D 2013, however, have been noted in the record as having issues in previous versions (2006 for Rehab, 2009 for QTO) that have gone unaddressed and have been perpetuated forward through the annual software releases.