C3D 2013 Points and grip editing

[Jeff_M]

In previous versions, grip editing a point from one place to another maintained the point elevation regardless of how the point was moved. For instance, drag it from it's current location and snap to the end of a line. In 2013 the point elevation now changes to match the elevation of the point snapped to. 

Is there a new setting to control how points react to Osnaps? Or are we now expected to use the .XY filter (without ever being notified of this change in workflow)?

[mathewkol]

Actually Jeff, that functionality has been arounf for as long as I can remember. OSNAPZ set to 1 and ELEVATION set to 0 will overcome this.

Your .XY will of course work as well.

[Jeff_M]

I thought so, too, Matt. But I had to go check and sure enough the elevations do not change when grip moving points in 2012. In the same drawing opened in 2013 they do change, snapping to the same objects. So what's different between versions?

[sboon]

It may be that you've changed one of the defaults for point display.  If the point display mode in your style is set to use point elevation then grip editing the point will respect the elevations of the pick points.  If your display style uses the Flatten option then elevations are ignored when grip editing.

[mathewkol]

Jeff, before you start snapping away, in 2012 and 2013, what is OSNAPZ set to?

[Jeff_M]

In 2012 it doesn't matter whether OSNAPZ = 0 or 1. Nor does it matter whether the style is set to flatten elevations or use the point elevation. In all tested cases the point's elevation remains unchanged whether I snap to grips, snap to end/mid/near, or swap OSNAPZ settings.

In 2013 I can say the exact same thing as above, except that the Point's elevation always changes no matter what any of those settings are set to.

This is all done with the same test drawing created in 2012, copied and then opened/saved the copy in 2013.

[mathewkol · Accepted solution]

So here's what I found:

In all versions I tested the move command will change a point's elevation if you snap to say an endpoint of a line.

2009 -  grip edit a point, the point elevation moves to the snapped point

2011 - same

2012 - grip edit a point and the point's elevation stays

2013 - same as 2009 and 2011.

Looks like 2012 is the anomaly.  I never noticed.  i guess I don't grip edit points much.

[sboon]

OK this is weird.  I have always had two default point styles, one with 2d and another with 3d display so that I can use osnaps to move points either with or without affecting their elevations.

In 2012 if I select a point with a 3d style and use a grip stretch to reposition it then the elevation doesn't change, as described by Jeff.  If I use a move command however to do exactly the same thing then the elevation works as expected.  In the screen clip you can see a move command in progress with the original and current elevation.

I'm not sure of why the snaps for a stretch would be treated differently than for a move. I would be interested to see if this is the same for a user without the Service Pack installed.

[Sinc]

I am seeing the same thing.  Never noticed that grip-edits in 2012 don't change the Point Elevation.

This is more the behavior I would expect....  Always thought the default C3D behavior was wrong, which is why the MOVEPOINTS command was one of the first command I added to the Sincpac-C3D, way back in the C3D 2007 version (I think).  Never did like the way the MOVE command (or grip-edits) would datum-adjust Cogo Points - that's almost always undesirable behavior.  Adjusting OSNAPZ has been an option, but that's not incredibly convenient either, since Autodesk inexplicably removed the OSNAPZ toggle from the Status Bar...  You're left to figure this out yourself, and create your own OSNAPZ toggle in a toolbar (or use one of the latest versions of the Sincpac-C3D, which adds this back into the Status Bar for C3D 2009 and later).  And while it's one option, C3D seems to work best in 3D, so constantly flipping OSNAPZ to move Cogo Points is not user-friendly.  The other option - trying to force C3D to do everything in 2D - is also not user-friendly, and eliminates a whole bunch of benefits discovered by working in 3D.

No idea why the behavior was reverted to pre-2012 behiavior in 2013, when the 2012 behavior seem preferable to me.

-- Sinc

[Jeff_M]

Thanks for checking the previous versions, Matt. I just checked 2010 & 2011 and obtained the same results you posted. I can see where having a toggle to allow the elevation to change or not would be a handy addition to C3D.

[jmayo-EE]

Can a command macro toggle osnapz or do you need two button?

[Jeff_M]

Moving by grip edit is unaffected by the OSNAPZ setting, John.

[jmayo-EE]

Yes I know that but I still toggle osnapz often. 🙂

[Jeff_M]

Oh, I misread your post. It happens when I check in before coffee or putting on my glasses. 

This bit of lisp code will toggle OSNAPZ:

(setvar 'osnapz (abs (1- (getvar 'osnapz))))

[jmayo-EE]

No worries. You're still awesome. 🙂

Thanks a bunch. I toggle this a lot when I am working with plines and fl's in the same file.

[Joe-Bouza]

2011 mine go to 0 if I'm not watching

[mathewkol]

This has been fixed in SP2 for 2012.

[JimmyHolland4988]

I am having the same problem, did you ever find a fix for this?

[mathewkol]

Fix for what?

[williamchance5718]

You can set the OSNAPZ setting to 0 and use the basic move command to move a point to a line etc without changing the elev.  It's not as easy as grip editing but it is a work around until autodesk publishes a hotfix for this.