Anyone using pipes to draw in existing utilities.............

[taneum]

We want to use pipe to draw in existing utilities (power, communications, gas, water, sewer, etc...).  It kinda works.  It draws the tow endpoint relevant to the surface based on the rule sets we have in place, but, anything between the two endpoints of the pipe is assumed straight graded.

Ex.......I have a 12" pvc water main crossing the road.  I created a pipe network and assigned the pipe styles, parts list, labels styles, etc......  I drew the pipe from one side of the road to the other side.  Well, on each side of the road is a roadside ditch.  So, my pipe ends are 6' deep (based on my rule set) but the middle of the pipe where it crosses the centerline alignment, it's around 10.5' deep (due to the crown of the road and based off the pipe endpoints).

How do I get the pipe to actually follow the surface model so no matter where my roadway profile runs, that pipe will be 6' deep?

[mathewkol]

You can do this with pressure networks.

[Jay_B]

We do this all the time for Water Main Pipes using gravity pipe networks with 2012 C3D.

You can edit your Pipes that were layed out based on your rule set (assuming there are pipe segments) by highlighting the Pipe you'd like to adjust by going to "Pipe Properties" and editing the Pipe End elevations of those pipes that need tweaking 1 pipe at a time.

Alternatively we often use feature lines from object by:

1. Drawing a polyline in plan view along the water main.

2. Create Feature Line from object, assign elevations by choosing a EG or FG surface to obtain these elevations.

3. Weed elevation pts by Modify Tab>Edit Elevations Panel>"Delete Elevation" (just pick the pi's you want deleted in plan.) Elevation Editor also helps to follow what's happening here.

3. Raise/Lower Feature to -6' so you get the depth.

4. Create Pipe Network from object & choose "Assign elevations" (choose invert, c/l crown of pipe etc.) the Elevations represent.

How do I get the pipe to actually follow the surface model so no matter where my roadway profile runs, that pipe will be 6' deep? 

The above method is one option that will follow whatever terrain you have (assuming you have a surface to use for).

The greatest benefit of having all underground piping in a Pipe Network is the ease at which one can show crossing pipes for conflicts in any multiple profile views, cross sections  & drawings. Styles are key to get the look you want.

When there's Storm, Sanitary & Water Main etc., the initial setup time (which is well worth it) when compared to the overall project time saved and issues that are caught during design because your pipes are dynamically modeled.

I've attached a couple examples that include Water Main.

Jay

[brianchapmandesign]

I'll be interested if someone can respond with a dynamic pipe solution, but if I were in your seat I'd project a polyline to the surface, drop it 6' and create a pipe network using that.

[taneum]

Yeah I tried the polyline idea and projecting to my surface model and then dropping 6'.  First problem was I had 86 little line segments which equated to 86 different pipes, along with 85 structures between the pipes.  My roadway is about two miles long so this will not work.

I understand the weeding out all the verticies to remedy that issue so I can probably do it that way.

Next problem.  So I go to the pipes menu and click on "create pipe network from object".  That works great but every pipe I do this for is going to be it's own network?  For two miles of roadway I am going to have 20-25 pipe networks?  I have not found a way where I can "add" to a pipe network by only creating pipes from an object.  Read the command carefully.....It's "create pipe netowrk from objects".  So when I get to my next water main crossing, I cannot just add that pipe to the previous water main pipe network, I have to create an entire new netowrk, which means putting in layer information everythime......this will take for ever..............

unless somebody knows how do it differently?

[Jay_B]

Provided the multiple Networks are connected, or can be, you could "Merge" the networks Using "Merge Networks".

Yes you can add pipes & structures to an existing Network by:

1. Highlighting a network part.

2. Choose pipe size from Pipe Network Layout Tools.

3. Select draw pipes, structures or both & pick on screen where pipe will begin (note: to join the pipes/structures

to an exisiting network in this manor you'll notice a little yellow circle glyph, when you hover over the exiisting PN network object. Left click at that point & it will connect the parts for you.

It will take some time but as long as your WM pipes all connect together you should be able to accomplish putting it all in one PN. I find it beneficial to place Null Structures as opposed to Connecting pipe to pipe. This way through styles it's easy to show the pipe crossings etc.

Jay

[taneum]

Ill have to try that but not sure it will work.  I am not drawing in the entire existing utility, just the crossings on the road, so, while the water main pipe may actually all be part of the same network out in the field, I wont be drawing it that way in the drawing.  We have 2d line work for all the water main but we dont want to draw the entire system in a pipe network, only where it crosses the road.  That's why I am not sure if this way will work but Ill try.

[fcernst]

Don't you and your engineer have to show the profile design for a water line lowering (with mega-lug restriants, thrust blocks, etc.) for this 12" at the lowering locations under the ditches? That's not an automated process...

[taneum]

This is a sewer and roadway project as the water was rebuilt 8-10 years ago or so.  We are not touching the water line in this project, just want to show where it crosses the centerline alignment in the profile and show it 6' deep. 

[Jay_B]

Based on that scenario it's easy to manage multiple & simple Pipe Networks for.

Just show short 1 pipe segments at those isolated crossings & get a naming system down so you can keep track of which is which such as:

X_WM 100 (sta. 1+00) etc. (be careful with special characters if using ata shortcuts. underscores are ok)

Draw in the Network Pipe & manually edit the inverts to in "PIpe properties" or "properties" for the short xings all your after is an ellipse to show up.

Jay

[fcernst]

Gotchya.  Yes, I like utilities as networks due to the Interference capabilities and Profile projection capabilities.

How many road crossings? I think it would be worth it to quickly edit those in through the Pipe Network editor for the productivity reasons above.

[taneum]

Okay so here is what I think will work best for me here.........

I drew in a polyline along my utility.  In this case it some communications lines.  I used the grading function to get elevations from my existing surface model.  I then lowered that line 3' below the surface.  Next thing I did was use the "delete pi" commanding in grading to get rid of probably 2/3 of the pi's.  This left me with about 5-6 segments.  I then created a pipe network from that line and it gave me 5-6 pipes.  I drew those into the profile view and then just turned off all the pipes except the one that actually crosses my centerline.  Seems to be pretty close.

I thought about just doeing 5' either side of the centerline and calling it good but our new sewer is 15' off centerline and I want to see any potential conflicts down the way with utilities so I wanted to draw in the utilities that far out.

[nostupidquestions]

the only time we need to show existing utilities is in the cross sections. so i do the polyline thing but i draw from the cross section sample line/utility line intersection. that gives pipe lengths of 50' (assuming your sample lines are 50'). i convert that polyline to a feature line with elevations only at the verticies. drop it the required depth and then convert to a pipe.  it creates null structures at each intersection which i erase. i have pipe styles set up for each utility. it works pretty well and doesn't use too many resources.