Juxtaposed to C3D objects, annotative objects, like Text, Dimensions, and MultiLeaders, are torture to understand and use. So I'm just wondering how C3D'ers deal with annotative objects. Do you avoid 'em like The Plague and use Note Labels and Line/Curve Labels, then drag them to make imitation Multileaders? Or do you gut it out and make an Heroic Attempt to understand how annotative objects work with the dizzying boggle of scale selections?
Dave
Dave Stoll
Las Vegas, Nevada
Solved! Go to Solution.
Solved by Jay_B. Go to Solution.
I use acad annotative dims and mleaders for all call outs because I find them more flexible with multiple scales, rotations & locations. C3D labels are restricted to surfaces and flines for ALL Elev data, alignt's profiles & sections.
I do not use C3D note labels much at all.
John Mayo
We use a mixture, annotative autocad objects and hatching here for plan production sheets.
You're absolutely right it can get very confusing understanding Annotative Objects but if you would
like to learn more about it in a short time, I'd recommend watching the AU class Annotation Scaling in AutoCAD
by KaDe King.
Thanks, John and Jay. Looks like I'd best just suck it up and learn how to use them. Thanks, Jay, for the link. It'll be this morning's class.
Dave
Dave Stoll
Las Vegas, Nevada
Jay,
KaDe King's Webinar gave me enough solid pointers to be able to figure it all out. Thanks for the link.
The cincher on whether to dive into Annotative Objects for me was Hatches and Linetypes. I'd forgotten those are also annotative. Blocks, too. I sometimes use Dynamic Blocks, so that's more than enough reasons to conquer Annotative Scaling.
Dave
Dave Stoll
Las Vegas, Nevada
Rick Jackson
Survey CAD Technician VI
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Do not forget. One "company" is on the east coast and one "company" is on the west coast (of USA) with apparently no means of communication between them.
Bill
One major pit fall that I find myself consistently trying to warn people about is the annotative scale. If the annotative definition is no in the drawing you are referencing into you aere hurting yourself before you begin.
The biggest problem here is very few people know how to get the full Civil Imperial Scale list into Civil 3D for use. In order to get these in there is only one way to get them. You have to reset the scale list and bring in both Imperial and Metric. I have no clue why they do not come in under the Imperial only selection.
K,
"...I find myself consistently trying to warn people about is the annotative scale."
Too late--I'm mired up to my neck in Annotative Quicksand! From KaDe's PDF Handout I have a tentative grasp on Annotation Scales as they apply to Text, Dimensions, and Multileaders. But Linetypes, Hatches, and Blocks befuddle and bewilder me.
"...reset the scale list and bring in both Imperial and Metric."
I'm almost afraid to ask, since my scale selection is mostly an acceptable assortment:
OK, I'll ask. Are there more scales available, and how can I get them?
Dave
Dave Stoll
Las Vegas, Nevada
Rick Jackson
Survey CAD Technician VI
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I have to take exception to the suggestion to set MSLTSCALE to 1. If you set MSLTSCALE to 1 your linetypes will likely not show correctly since the gaps and dashes will be too dense. The reason they implemented the MSLTSCALE variable was to allow you to have a different LT scale when working in Model Space so you can set it to a value that makes the linetypes display as they will at plot scale.
Rick Jackson
Survey CAD Technician VI
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We do the same as RL_Jackson suggests LTSCALE MSLTSCALE PSLTSCALE are all set to 1 in all of our templates.
This way Annotation Scaling works as intended and MS scale adjusts the display by the scale factor whenever the
MS scale value is changed.
MSLTSCALE=0 causes the linetype to remain at a 1:1 scale which isn't what we want with annotation scaling here.
Thanks, RL. From KaDe's Webinar/PDF Handout I got that setting those to 1 makes Lines "accept" Annotative Scaling. But why is there no Annotative Checkbox in Properties when you select a line? Why are Annotative Settings for lines different than Text? And Annotative Settings for Hatches are completely different. I don't mind that they're all crazy-different, but I have to think there's some key piece of understanding that keeps me from owning this subject.
And just when I thought setting LTSCALE, MSLTSCALE, and PSLTSCALE to 1 would fix everything up peachy, then I caught wind of CELTSCALE. Yet another Monkey in the Wrench.
Dave
Dave Stoll
Las Vegas, Nevada
Neil,
I tried changing MSLTSCALE from 1 to 0, to see the effect. One is too dense and one is too spread out. I'm feeling like Goldilocks here. I'd like something that's just right. Is that where CELTSCALE comes in?
Dave
Dave Stoll
Las Vegas, Nevada
Dave CELTSCALE is normally left at 1.
CELTSCALE from help:
Sets the linetype scaling for new objects relative to the LTSCALE command setting. A line created with CELTSCALE = 2 in a drawing with LTSCALE set to 0.5 would appear the same as a line created with CELTSCALE = 1 in a drawing with LTSCALE = 1.
Jay,
"MSLTSCALE=0 causes the linetype to remain at a 1:1 scale..."
I think I could scramble to the top of the hill if I just understood what "size" linetypes and hatches are. Then I might have some idea of how to combine different objects to have complimentary scales. Right now, it's click and change, click and change, click and change.......
Dave
Dave Stoll
Las Vegas, Nevada
Jay,
My first thought when I read about CELTSCALE in the Help Section, was, "You sick, confusing SOB's!" Why not just change the Linetype Scale in Properties? Why add an extra layer of confusion?
Have you ever used CELTSCALE? What will it do that changing the Linetype Scale in Properties won't?
Dave
Dave Stoll
Las Vegas, Nevada
@Pointdump wrote:
Jay,
"MSLTSCALE=0 causes the linetype to remain at a 1:1 scale..."
I think I could scramble to the top of the hill if I just understood what "size" linetypes and hatches are. Then I might have some idea of how to combine different objects to have complimentary scales. Right now, it's click and change, click and change, click and change.......
Dave
Take a linetype which uses text.
Draw such a line with the MS scale set to 1:1.
Measure the height of the text. (probably going to be 0.10 to 0.12.)
Change the MS scale to 1:50, measure text height (which will now be 5-6 units in height).
The text or annotative object is multiplied by the MS or VP scale:
20 x 0.1 = 2
30 x 0.1 = 3
50 x 0.1 = 5 etc.