Annotative Objects

[Pointdump]

Juxtaposed to C3D objects, annotative objects, like Text, Dimensions, and MultiLeaders, are torture to understand and use. So I'm just wondering how C3D'ers deal with annotative objects. Do you avoid 'em like The Plague and use Note Labels and Line/Curve Labels, then drag them to make imitation Multileaders? Or do you gut it out and make an Heroic Attempt to understand how annotative objects work with the dizzying boggle of scale selections?

Dave

[jmayo-EE]

I use acad annotative dims and mleaders for all call outs because I find them more flexible with multiple scales, rotations & locations. C3D labels are restricted to surfaces and flines for ALL Elev data, alignt's profiles & sections.

I do not use C3D note labels much at all.

[Jay_B · Accepted solution]

We use a mixture, annotative autocad objects and hatching here for plan production sheets.

You're absolutely right it can get very confusing understanding Annotative Objects but if you would

like to learn more about it in a short time, I'd recommend watching the AU class Annotation Scaling in AutoCAD

by KaDe King.

[Pointdump]

Thanks, John and Jay. Looks like I'd best just suck it up and learn how to use them. Thanks, Jay, for the link. It'll be this morning's class.

Dave

[Pointdump]

Jay,

KaDe King's Webinar gave me enough solid pointers to be able to figure it all out. Thanks for the link.

The cincher on whether to dive into Annotative Objects for me was Hatches and Linetypes. I'd forgotten those are also annotative. Blocks, too. I sometimes use Dynamic Blocks, so that's more than enough reasons to conquer Annotative Scaling.

Dave

[Neilw_05]

Once you understand annotative objects you'll wish C3D labels behaved the same. That has been a complaint for quite a while.

[rl_jackson]

Isn't that the truth. I would make everything a lot easier in my opinion. It's also a major flaw in C3D, why they made autocad have annotative text and C3D have it's own is beyond my comprehension, it just make no logically sense.

[wfberry]

Do not forget.  One "company" is on the east coast and one "company" is on the west coast (of USA) with apparently no means of communication between them.

Bill

[kcobabe]

One major pit fall that I find myself consistently trying to warn people about is the annotative scale.  If the annotative definition is no in the drawing you are referencing into you aere hurting yourself before you begin.

The biggest problem here is very few people know how to get the full Civil Imperial Scale list into Civil 3D for use.  In order to get these in there is only one way to get them.  You have to reset the scale list and bring in both Imperial and Metric.  I have no clue why they do not come in under the Imperial only selection.

[Pointdump]

K,

"...I find myself consistently trying to warn people about is the annotative scale."

Too late--I'm mired up to my neck in Annotative Quicksand! From KaDe's PDF Handout I have a tentative grasp on Annotation Scales as they apply to Text, Dimensions, and Multileaders. But Linetypes, Hatches, and Blocks befuddle and bewilder me.

"...reset the scale list and bring in both Imperial and Metric."

I'm almost afraid to ask, since my scale selection is mostly an acceptable assortment:



OK, I'll ask. Are there more scales available, and how can I get them?

Dave

[rl_jackson]

For Linetypes to work and display correctly in Model and Paper Space set the following to 1:

LTSCALE MSLTSCALE PSLTSCALE

Regarding the Scale list - do you need additional scales that you currently have, if so select custom at the bottom and create it, just make sure you create it in your template so that all drawings going forward have the new scale or scales.

[Neilw_05]

I have to take exception to the suggestion to set MSLTSCALE to 1. If you set MSLTSCALE to 1 your linetypes will likely not show correctly since the gaps and dashes will be too dense. The reason they implemented the MSLTSCALE variable was to allow you to have a different LT scale when working in Model Space so you can set it to a value that makes the linetypes display as they will at plot scale. 

[rl_jackson]

I have absolutely no issue with it, and I can have multiples scales and they all plot the same. in paperspace. I never change LTSCALE, unless I change it at the object level.

[Jay_B]

We do the same as RL_Jackson suggests LTSCALE MSLTSCALE PSLTSCALE are all set to 1 in all of our templates.

This way Annotation Scaling works as intended and MS scale adjusts the display by the scale factor whenever the

MS scale value is changed.

MSLTSCALE=0 causes the linetype to remain at a 1:1 scale which isn't what we want with annotation scaling here.

[Pointdump]

Thanks, RL. From KaDe's Webinar/PDF Handout I got that setting those to 1 makes Lines "accept" Annotative Scaling. But why is there no Annotative Checkbox in Properties when you select a line? Why are Annotative Settings for lines different than Text? And Annotative Settings for Hatches are completely different. I don't mind that they're all crazy-different, but I have to think there's some key piece of understanding that keeps me from owning this subject.

And just when I thought setting LTSCALE, MSLTSCALE, and PSLTSCALE to 1 would fix everything up peachy, then I caught wind of CELTSCALE. Yet another Monkey in the Wrench.

Dave

[Pointdump]

Neil,

I tried changing MSLTSCALE from 1 to 0, to see the effect. One is too dense and one is too spread out. I'm feeling like Goldilocks here. I'd like something that's just right. Is that where CELTSCALE comes in?




Dave

[Jay_B]

Dave CELTSCALE is normally left at 1.

CELTSCALE from help:

Sets the linetype scaling for new objects relative to the LTSCALE command setting. A line created with CELTSCALE = 2 in a drawing with LTSCALE set to 0.5 would appear the same as a line created with CELTSCALE = 1 in a drawing with LTSCALE = 1.

[Pointdump]

Jay,

"MSLTSCALE=0 causes the linetype to remain at a 1:1 scale..."

I think I could scramble to the top of the hill if I just understood what "size" linetypes and hatches are. Then I might have some idea of how to combine different objects to have complimentary scales. Right now, it's click and change, click and change, click and change.......

Dave

[Pointdump]

Jay,

My first thought when I read about CELTSCALE in the Help Section, was, "You sick, confusing SOB's!" Why not just change the Linetype Scale in Properties? Why add an extra layer of confusion?

Have you ever used CELTSCALE?  What will it do that changing the Linetype Scale in Properties won't?

Dave

[Jay_B]

---

@Pointdump wrote:

Jay,

"MSLTSCALE=0 causes the linetype to remain at a 1:1 scale..."

I think I could scramble to the top of the hill if I just understood what "size" linetypes and hatches are. Then I might have some idea of how to combine different objects to have complimentary scales. Right now, it's click and change, click and change, click and change.......

Dave

---

Take a linetype which uses text.

Draw such a line with the MS scale set to 1:1.

Measure the height of the text. (probably going to be 0.10 to 0.12.)

Change the MS scale to 1:50, measure text height (which will now be 5-6 units in height).

The text or annotative object is multiplied by the MS or VP scale:

20 x 0.1 = 2

30 x 0.1 = 3

50 x 0.1 = 5 etc.