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Adjusting a Conventional Traverse to a set of known GPS coordinates

13 REPLIES 13
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Message 1 of 14
rkmin
2203 Views, 13 Replies

Adjusting a Conventional Traverse to a set of known GPS coordinates

Is it possible to do this in Civil 3D?

13 REPLIES 13
Message 2 of 14
odoshi
in reply to: rkmin

Hi,

 

I've had to do this a few times. It's the same process (hack) as in LDT. The underlying fieldbook edit and imports are the same in C3D, just a different UI.

 

Usually I adjust the traverse points only, getting final NEZ's after a Least Squares analysis. Then put those back in the fieldbook and import everything with the sideshots.

 

Regards,

Mike

 

Mike Caruso
Autodesk Certified Instructor 2014
AutoCAD/Civil 3D Autodesk Certified Professional 2014, 2015, 2018
www.whitemountaincad.com
Message 3 of 14
rkmin
in reply to: odoshi

I've never used fieldbook so i don't know the method you suggested.

 

I have tied several of our control points via GPS, now I just need to adjust my traverse (and all sideshots) to match the GPS control points. Normally I would do the adjustment in the collector itself if it was a closed traverse, but this is a long 4-mile stretch of road so an open traverse. 

Message 4 of 14
odoshi
in reply to: rkmin

So are the GPS points at either end of the open traverse? Or are there others along the way?

 

Also, how is your traverse stored in the collector? Do you have the raw file? This is what you need to convert to fieldbook. You then change the ID's of the NEZ statements in the fieldbook to the ID's of the GPS points. NEZ's are fixed in the least squares analysis, so the shots inbetween will get adjusted.

 

Perhaps this method/software is new, so I'm talking from a 50000 foot view, but the process is doable.

 

There are more robust methods like StarNet by MicroSurvey and Carlson is fairly adept at it. But you can do it in C3D. It's part of the Civil 3D for Surveyors class I teach.

 

Regards,

Mike

 

Mike Caruso
Autodesk Certified Instructor 2014
AutoCAD/Civil 3D Autodesk Certified Professional 2014, 2015, 2018
www.whitemountaincad.com
Message 5 of 14
rkmin
in reply to: odoshi

Thanks for your response. I'm feeling a little hopeful here so let's see how much further we can go.

 

 

Our survey runs north-south. We GPS'd the northern and southern most control points. Out of the 49 total contorl points, we GPS'd 13 of them throughout the legnth of the job fairly evenly spaced apart.

 

The traverse is stored in our Ranger 300x as a .job and .raw files.  I've never used fieldbook before so I would really appreciate on how to get my raw data into fieldbook so that I can make my traverse adjustment.

 

Thank you.

Message 6 of 14
odoshi
in reply to: rkmin

Let's see if you can't first convert the .raw file to .fbk.

 

In Civil 3D, Go to the Home Ribbon and expand the Create Ground Data panel. There is a command in the panel called Survey Data Collection Link.

 

In there, go to the menu Conversions > Convert File Format. I've never used the TDS Ranger 300x, and the data collectors supported by Autodesk are getting older each year, but it's a start. You could also download Carlson's freebie to convert to FBK as well, if this doesn't work.

 

Set the options as in this pic.

 

TDS_raw_FBK.jpg

 

Use the Choose File buttons to select your raw and to specify the output FBK.

 

If all goes well, you will get a fieldbook file.

 

Part 2 is setting up a Civil 3D Survey Database. This is done on the Survey tab of Civil 3D's Toolspace palette.

When you make a new Survey DB, make sure the units are US Foot.

Once the DB is made, right-click on Import Events and Import Survey Data...

Specify your fieldbook file at step 2 of the wizard.

 

This is the process of importing the fieldbook.

 

Prior to that, you would edit the fiedlbook as in my earlier post with the GPS coordinates. But let's see if you can't get the raw > fbk conversion first.

 

Mike

 

Mike Caruso
Autodesk Certified Instructor 2014
AutoCAD/Civil 3D Autodesk Certified Professional 2014, 2015, 2018
www.whitemountaincad.com
Message 7 of 14
rkmin
in reply to: odoshi

The conversion didn't work because in the beginning of my raw file contains my digital leveling data so when it tried to convert it, it created a 1KB .fbk file that only contained the first few lines of my raw  which stopped just before the leveling data so it never got to my traverse information of the raw.

Message 8 of 14
jmayo-EE
in reply to: rkmin

You may want to look into the method that required a pline vs a fieldbook.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEYfN25tHZY

John Mayo

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Message 9 of 14
rkmin
in reply to: jmayo-EE

Thanks for assisting.

 

If i'm understanding the video correctly, it's just adjusting the traverse itself and does not include all the sideshots that were shot from each traverse control point. The fieldbook idea seems like what I want since by changing the coordinates of the control points, it will also adjust any sideshots...if I understood that correctly.

 

Normally, if I do a closed traverse and apply the compass rule adjustment on my Ranger 300x, it also adjusts each sideshot taken from the control points being adjusted. Unfortunately, I have an open traverse that I would need to adjust from a known starting point to a known ending point based on GPS coordinates. 

 

Is there a way that I can attach my drawing to this post? The traverse is 4 miles long running north-south so I can't take a screen shot of it and be able to see anything in detail.

Message 10 of 14
rkmin
in reply to: rkmin

Also, using the Data Link program within Civil 3D doesn't allow me to delete the digital leveling data from it since that is where it gets stuck when I'm trying to convert the RAW to FBK.

Message 11 of 14
rl_jackson
in reply to: rkmin

Open the raw file with Widows Text Editor, all it is is a text file.

Rick Jackson
Survey CAD Technician VI

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Message 12 of 14
AllenJessup
in reply to: rkmin

A major question that I haven't seen asked is - Do you want the results in Grid or Ground? What are you GPS coordinates in?

 

Allen



Allen Jessup
Engineering Specialist / CAD Manager

Message 13 of 14
rkmin
in reply to: odoshi

Ok, I was finally able to convert to a FBK and I edited the coordinates for the control points in the FBK to the GPS coordinates that I wanted to adjust to.

 

So, I have 33 control points in the FBK that still have the old coordinates in them and 16 control points that have the new coordinates that I want to adjust my traverse by.

 

I hope I set this up properly before I do the final adjustment. I did make a backup just in case things go wrong.

Message 14 of 14
rl_jackson
in reply to: rkmin

Your going to need to address Allen's question. "Is the final output to be on Ground or Grid?"

 

I'm thinking that you GPS data, is on GRID and depending on the length of your travers and scale factor for your local area, it may or may not make a difference (i.e. if you scale factor is very close to 1 there my not be much to worry about.) Personally (depending on client requirements) I would use grid coordinates, and if the scale factor was substantial apply that to the Total Station data, so that those points are at grid as well.

 

Unfortuanately you have a situation where you used the cart before the horse. As the best solution would have been to start on 2 GPS control points and run the topo/traverse from there, while checking to the other know GPS points. (Just my opinion)

 

But here are my thoughts.

 

  1. Import your GPS Points into the survey database as there own network. This will lock them as contorl points.
  2. Import fbk files with your setups from GPS point 1 to GPS point 2 (basically you'll have multiple small field books with data between just 2 control points thereby localizing any error to the data between the two points and not the whole run. (This is assuming your initial Station and BS are GPS Points). (You could also use John's pline method with Map Check here - in essence creating new points coordinates based on a balance between GPS1 & 2)
  3. Once you have all the control points in the drawing/database. Then import a seperate fieldbook with just the STN and BS values of you new points for the side shots.

It's sort of tough without seeing the data, amongst other things. Believe there's always more that one way to skin a cat..

 


Rick Jackson
Survey CAD Technician VI

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