2D World

[Anonymous]

I do 99% of my work in the 2D world.  I have my Point Styles set  to use the point elevation.  This is creating problems.  If I change my styles to "Flatten Points to Elevation" and set them to 0 -what do I do when  I need elevation?  Or is there a way to bring in the elevation and not use it?

 Note- I do NOT use the Survey Database to bring points in-find it to cumbersome to manipulate points (rotate, scale and move).

Thxs.

David

[Sinc]

If you have your Point Styles set to flatten, you should still be able to snap to the 3D point (with elevation) by using the 'PO transparent command.

[Anonymous]

Does the elevation stay visible with the node or does it go to 0?  What if I need to do a profile/contour map?

Thxs.

David

[Sinc]

I don't fully understand your question...  But you can still use Cogo Points in Surfaces, even if you have the "Flatten Points to Elevation" option selected in the Style.  All the "Flatten Points" option does is affect the way the point node/label are displayed in the drawing.  Does that answer your question?

[Anonymous]

I think so but 1 more question- do you mix your styles in a dwg or is that just asking for trouble? 

Thxs.

David

[Sinc]

We have them mixed, but not entirely out of choice.

We actually prefer having them in 3D.  That gives us the ability to inverse between them easily, getting both 2D and 3D inverses (we use the Sincpac-C3D and its PTINV command, so we can do this easily without needing to constantly toggle the OSNAPZ variable).

However, we also use True Type Fonts.  And unfortunately, there's a bug in Civil 3D where TTF's appear "fuzzy" or "bold" when they are not at Z=0.  So for all of our Cogo Point Markers that contain letters (e.g. Sanitary Sewer Manholes), we have the Point Style set to flatten the points to Z=0, so we don't get fuzzy letters in our symbols.  (At least this has been a problem for years now...  Not sure if it's finally been fixed in C3D 2011.)

So we have them mixed, but if it weren't for the bug in Autocad, we would keep them all at elevation.

[eargrif]

Just out of curiosity, how do you handle your hand-drawn linework? Surely the linework must be flattened, or you would have to deal with all of the 3d oddities (such as perp. snap)? We decided (many years ago) to go as flatland as we could get - all our points are 2D, although we have 3D styles set up just in case we need them. We do a lot of our linework and drafting "by hand", using point snaps fairly common, so 2D points are almost always a necessity. As I said, just curious (and in constant search for a "better way to do things")...

[SkipBurns]

If your points are 3D and you have 'osnapz' set to 1, you should still get 2D linework.

[eargrif]

Good point - I am so used to working in 2D, I guess I forgot about OSNAPZ...

[_Hathaway]

The 3D aspect of the linework and points is something we still struggle with and dislike very much. 

The osnapz variable only seems to work if you are connecting to points using the node osnap variable.  When I use the 'PO  toggle it still draws a 3d line for me (not to mention the effort of having to actually type 'PO or remembering where the tiny icon is) Why they don't have this in an osnap like toggle I don't know. 

Plus, if you draw a line from a point using the node osnap with osnapz set to 0 to a survey figure it will end up with 3d values.  Flattening survey figures is more trouble than its worth, it just doesn't perform properly. 

Having more than one drawing, a 3d and 2d drawing, is more dangerous that it's worth imho. 

I like much of Civil3d but not the actual drawing in 3d aspects.  Luckily I'm a surveyor and don't have too deal with these issues too much.  The LDD functionality of 2d in a 3d world worked fine, I miss that aspect of LDD.

[Sinc]

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@eargrif wrote:
Just out of curiosity, how do you handle your hand-drawn linework? Surely the linework must be flattened... We do a lot of our linework and drafting "by hand", using point snaps fairly common, so 2D points are almost always a necessity.

---

The majority of linework is not flattened for us.  It's actually kind of nice to be able to flip into a 3D view when desired.

We try to do as little drafting "by hand" as possible.  Fieldwork is done with linework codes, so we rarely "connect-the-dots".

But then we also use the Sincpac-C3D, which solves tons of annoyances that exist in C3D as it comes out-of-the-box.  For example, I regularly use the Extract2d command to pull a 2D polyline (with true curves) out of Survey Figures.  This command even works through XREFs, so we can attach a design survey as an XREF, and then extract key linework into the current drawing as flattened 2D polylines.  Or I can select some items and right-click -> Flatten Objects, as a fast and easy way to flatten lines and polylines, if I'm getting those annoying "lines are not co-planar" errors.  There's the PtConnect command, which lets me select a selection set of Cogo Points on the screen, and connect them with either 2D or 3D polylines, fast and easy.  There's the BrkPt command, which is much the same as drawing a 3D polyline, except it automatically adds the polyline to a Surface as it is drawn.  For the most part, we use the auto-linework, but there's still occassions when we need to clean up areas by "connecting-the-dots", and that command makes it easier.  And a bunch of others.

There's plenty of things that still really annoy us about C3D, but there's tons of other things that go really fast.  We're far more productive now than we were with Land Desktop.  Which is good, because it's helped us remain viable in recent times, when so many firms are closing shop.

[jmayo-EE]

I think you want to know if the elevation will still display correct if you flatten the point styles. Yes they will. The elevations will NOT display as zero. The point object will be placed at elevation zero only.

[Anonymous]

Fot those of us that are simple minded and do not use the 3D that much and want them to be identical except for needing 3D once in a blue moon-would it be better to have 2 template dwgs.?

Thxs.

David

[Sinc]

I have never found two template drawings to be a good way of dealing with C3D.  Over time, it's virtually impossible to keep them both synchronized.  If you're going for simple, then I don't think two templates is it.

But I'm not really sure what you'd want in a "2D template" and a "3D template"...  We do everything from one template.

[eargrif]

Thanks, it's always nice to see how other people are using the software features differently. And I do agree with your about the productivity boost. I'd also agree with not using multiple templates - managing all the styles from previous versions of templates can be confusing enough. Once you get down with how styles are set up, its easy enough to create/change them on-the-fly as needed, while maintaining a single template for all the standard ones. Like I said before, we just have 3D point styles available in our template when needed, we just rarely use them.

[Anonymous]

If I understand all of this,  I can set my elevation to "Flatten to 0" so I can do my 2D work (osnaps, fillet, trim, etc.-I do not use Field To Finish) ) but the points will keep their elevation in the "database" for contour maps and profiles?

thxs.

David

[jmayo-EE]

We do things just like Sinc. Connecting the dots and manual drafting are rare once you can get a crew to code well. If they don't code well you will be connecting the dots forever...

You are correct that the elvations will show even if the point style is flattened. Just note if you are creating points with the import command or creating them manually the point data is stored in the dwg. A database is only used if you are importing from the Survey Toolspace into a Survey Database.

[Anonymous]

90% of my work is done with RTk and not more than 200 points.  I use the "Import Points" to bring them and connect the dots manually.  I'll be setting things up to be flatten.

If I need the elevations for a tin/profile, how do I get them into "SURVEY DATABASE"?

Thxs.

David

[Anonymous]

I would keep a 3d smart file, export to a 2D project base file, and then remove z values.

[jmayo-EE]

You will always have the elevations. Flattening the point style does not remove the z data. You just get a picture of the point at zero elevation. The point will not display an elevation of zero.

The survey db would be useful for autolinework. Based on what you are doing I can see little benefit to a survey db. You do not need the db to build a surface or get profiles. Use the points and breaklines to define the surface.