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2013 Dynamic North Arrow Rotation Issue

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Message 1 of 38
klugb
10853 Views, 37 Replies

2013 Dynamic North Arrow Rotation Issue

Ok, I'm stumped. I am using the Dynamic North arrow that is linked to the viewport. It doesn't matter if I use an OOTB block or a custom one they all have a rotation of 355.4016. 

The viewport is type "Plan", Dview twist is set to "0", USC is World.

If I change the rotation on the block it rotates the viewport (as expected).

 

The default block is not rotated. Any suggestions?

 

BTW, It works fin in the default NCS, so it's something in my template.

 

Bruce Klug, P.E.
AutoCAD Expert Elite Alumni
AutoCAD Civil 3D Certified Professional
Civil 3D 2023.2.1

Win 10 Enterprise, 64-bit
37 REPLIES 37
Message 2 of 38
dgordon
in reply to: klugb

sorry,  I don't have an answer to your question, but your screen shot raised a question for me.   My C3D 2013 installation doesn't have a design workspace nor do i have a layout tab on any of my workspaces.

 

Are you using some kind of country kit?   Or does sp1 add the workspace?

Dan

Civil 3D 2013
Win 7 Pro x64
Intel Xeon 2.0GHz
12Gb Ram
ATI Firepro 4800
Dell T5500
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Message 3 of 38
klugb
in reply to: dgordon

Check the image and see if that's the problem with the tabs?

 

The "Design" workspace is a save as copy of the "Civil 3D" one. Co-workers here have a tendency to "modify" their workspace (usually destroy beyond repair) so I set the copy as our default. If anything happens to it we still have the Civil 3D one intact. Just cheap insurance 🙂

 

Bruce Klug, P.E.
AutoCAD Expert Elite Alumni
AutoCAD Civil 3D Certified Professional
Civil 3D 2023.2.1

Win 10 Enterprise, 64-bit
Message 4 of 38
dgordon
in reply to: klugb

is the layout tab a customization also?

Dan

Civil 3D 2013
Win 7 Pro x64
Intel Xeon 2.0GHz
12Gb Ram
ATI Firepro 4800
Dell T5500
www.preinnewhof.com
Message 5 of 38
klugb
in reply to: klugb

Nope, didn't create anything for it.

 

Bruce Klug, P.E.
AutoCAD Expert Elite Alumni
AutoCAD Civil 3D Certified Professional
Civil 3D 2023.2.1

Win 10 Enterprise, 64-bit
Message 6 of 38
C3D_TomR
in reply to: dgordon

The layout tab appears when you are in a layout (paperspace) instead of the model tab.

Tom Richardson


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Message 7 of 38
C3D_TomR
in reply to: klugb

If you select the dynamic north arrow, there's a small partially transparent icon with a wrench and a dropdown arrow. Select that icon and choose Link to viewport. Select the viewport and see if the north arrow updates with the viewport now.

Tom Richardson


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Message 8 of 38
klugb
in reply to: C3D_TomR

Nope, Tried that.  I though It was fixed with the reset..... until I realized it rotated the viewport Smiley Indifferent

 

I attached a test file if anyone want to take a shot at it?

 

Bruce Klug, P.E.
AutoCAD Expert Elite Alumni
AutoCAD Civil 3D Certified Professional
Civil 3D 2023.2.1

Win 10 Enterprise, 64-bit
Message 9 of 38
C3D_TomR
in reply to: klugb

It may have something to do with the viewport in the drawing. I can't change the scale of the viewport from the properties palette dropdown list. I created a new viewport in the drawing and associated the north arrow to that viewport and it works fine.

Tom Richardson


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Message 10 of 38
C3D_TomR
in reply to: C3D_TomR

Actually, once I created the new viewport and associated the north arrow to the new viewport I can now make changes to the original viewport. I reassociated the north arrow to the original viewport and it seems to be working fine now.

Tom Richardson


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Message 11 of 38
C3D_TomR
in reply to: C3D_TomR

I can duplicate the issue. It has to do with the Drawing Settings, Units and Zone, Zone, Categories. If this setting is No Datum, No Projection, then North is North. The drawing you posted is set to USA, Washington (WA83-SF). I think the dynamic north arrow is maybe trying to account for declination or something like that.

Tom Richardson


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Message 12 of 38
klugb
in reply to: C3D_TomR

Interesting, Looks promising, I can link one in the standard NCS and it's fine, Set the zone for us (SW Washington State) link a new one and there is my rotation. I had already set it off to Autodesk so I'll have to update the case. 

I'll keep you posted here.

 

Thanks for the help.

Bruce Klug, P.E.
AutoCAD Expert Elite Alumni
AutoCAD Civil 3D Certified Professional
Civil 3D 2023.2.1

Win 10 Enterprise, 64-bit
Message 13 of 38
C3D_TomR
in reply to: C3D_TomR

It only appears to read the Zone setting when the north arrow is associated with a viewport. Changing the Zone after the association doesn't affect the north arrow. To see what I'm describing, try these scenarios:

 

Remove all Dynamic North Arrows from the drawing and setup mulitple viewports with no twist, USC to world, etc.

 

  • Set Zone Category to No, Datum, No Projection and place a Dynamic North Arrow associated to viewport 1.
  • Now change the Selected coordinate system code to WAHP-SF and place a second Dynamic North Arrow in the drawing then move it to the same location as the first one except select the second viewport for the association. You'll see that the rotation is different.
  • Now change the Selected coordinate system code to TX83-SF and place a third Dynamic North Arrow in the drawing then move it to the exact same location as the first one except select the third viewport for the association. You'll see that the rotation is again different from either of the other two north arrows.

Saving and opening the drawing doesn't change the rotation of the north arrows but changing the dview twist in the viewport will reset the "adjustment factor" to whatever coordinate system is current.

 

After several of these iterations I tried to change the scale of the viewport and I couldn't until I moved the north arrows so that they no longer overlapped each other. I think that's a separate issue from what you're seeing though.

Tom Richardson


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Message 14 of 38
C3D_TomR
in reply to: klugb

Thanks! I notified @AutodeskCare on Twitter so they can follow the discussion as well.

Tom Richardson


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Message 15 of 38
C3D_TomR
in reply to: klugb

Bruce,

 

Since I know that others will be experiencing this issue too, I posted a blog on it with a little more detail and pics. I think the rotation is true north and grid north, not magnetic declination.

 

http://crossing-the-line-with-c3d.blogspot.com/2012/12/which-way-is-north.html

Tom Richardson


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Message 16 of 38
klugb
in reply to: C3D_TomR

Tom,

 

Thank you for the quick response and great blog link. If Autodesk has anything to add with my service request I will be sure to add it. I marked it "accepted solution" but we really need an "accepted workaround", but that's for a different forum Smiley Wink

 

Thanks again

Bruce Klug, P.E.
AutoCAD Expert Elite Alumni
AutoCAD Civil 3D Certified Professional
Civil 3D 2023.2.1

Win 10 Enterprise, 64-bit
Message 17 of 38
C3D_TomR
in reply to: klugb

Thanks, Bruce. I'm glad I could help.

Tom Richardson


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Message 18 of 38
C3D_TomR
in reply to: klugb

Bruce,

 

As you requested, a solution has been found. I added the info as an upate at the bottom of the blog post.

 

In modelspace, execute the GEOGRAPHICLOCATION command and choose REMOVE THE GEOGRAPHICLOCATION. Do this in your template and that should take care of the dynamic north arrow rotation issue.

Tom Richardson


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Message 19 of 38
klugb
in reply to: C3D_TomR

Just to make sure I understand, this command just strips the coordinate system out of the template right?

Won't that cause a problem moving forward with any drawing that I get with a different coordinate system assigned? I thought that C3D was using this to automatically adjust and data attached?

Bruce Klug, P.E.
AutoCAD Expert Elite Alumni
AutoCAD Civil 3D Certified Professional
Civil 3D 2023.2.1

Win 10 Enterprise, 64-bit
Message 20 of 38
C3D_TomR
in reply to: klugb

Here's some information about the Geographic Location in a Drawing.

 

http://docs.autodesk.com/ACD/2013/ENU/index.html?url=files/GUID-47B2082F-204E-499A-99AD-96DC2BA3738F...

 

It appears to be an AutoCAD setting used for sun studies, environment analysis, exporting to AutoCAD Map 3D, and working with Google Earth. Since this settings is available in Vanilla AutoCAD, then it doesn't appear to control the Map/Civil 3D coordinate system settings, The Map/Civil 3D coordinate system settings WILL control the geographic location. When you assign a coordinate system to a drawing, the geographic location gets set based on the coordinate system selected. Setting the coordinate system back to No Datum, No Projection doesn't remove the geographic location, it just resets it to the equivalent of "0" for the adjustment factor.

 

I worked with it some more and got some interesting results. I set the coordinate system to No Datum, No Projection, removed the geo location, and placed the north arrow. All is good. Then I reset the coordinate system to tx83-cf. The north arrow is still good. Next I rotated an existing polyline in paperspace 45 degrees. The north arrow then applied the "rotation factor" based on the newly assigned coordinate system.

 

Based on these findings, I will be using the dynamic north arrow only in drawings that have the coordinate system set to No Datum, No Projection and the geographic location removed. For plotting, I will xref the base drawing into a separate sheet drawing so that the north arrow won't be assoicated with any coordinate system or geographic location.

Tom Richardson


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