Civil 3D 2017 is not backward compatable.

[ChrisRS]

Civil 3D 2017 is not backward compatable.

I suspect that this is the cost of progress, so it OK. Just be aware.

When 2016 was backward compatible with 2015, AutoDesk clearly said so. It would be nice if they spoke as clearly now.

From the help File:

Interoperability Between Versions

This topic describes the behavior when an AutoCAD Civil 3D 2017 drawing is opened in prior versions of AutoCAD Civil 3D.

Objects in a drawing saved in AutoCAD Civil 3D 2017 are available only as proxies when the drawing is opened in a prior version of the software.

Within AutoCAD Civil 3D 2017, set the PROXYGRAPHICS drawing setting to 1 to save the graphics with the drawing, otherwise a bounding box is displayed where the object is located when the drawing is opened in a prior version of the software.

Notice whenyou open an older version file:

[Glenn_Rimando]

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@rkmcswain wrote:

@Glenn_Rimando wrote:

......would you know if 2017 and on will be 'Round trip' w/ future versions?

Anyone who does know, can't say, and anyone who says, doesn't know.

Autodesk does not release future plans, and users in the alpha/beta program are constrained by an NDA.

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I see; I hope they keep the 'roundtrip' factor in consideration for future development. It could be keeping more clients away from using 2017 than just my company.

[AllenJessup]

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@Glenn_Rimando wrote:

I see; I hope they keep the 'roundtrip' factor in consideration for future development. It could be keeping more clients away from using 2017 than just my company.

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They do. That's why it's been so long since this was an issue. They've just come to a point where to progress further the Civil objects need to change. It will happen again at some time in the future when they reach that point.

[rkmcswain]

I don't understand all the deep dark technical reasons of "why", but I'm quite sure the dev team is not just sitting around going "Hey, let's switch up the format, just to mess with everyone this time!"

🙂

http://help.autodesk.com/view/CIV3D/2017/ENU/?guid=GUID-589C3DC0-EC98-40BC-B8CD-4623AA79D763

[jakubkares]

I tried three different templates from C3D 2017.

a) _AutoCAD Civil 3D (Metric) NCS
b) __autocad civil 3d 2017 cz
c) map2diso

In the first step a created a simple drawing with some lines a circles. In C3D 2017 (based on different templates)
Then I saved it and export it (in C3D 2017).

All my steps are simply described below.

(in 17)
1) create simple drawing in C3D 2017
2) save 1)
3) export 1) c3d drawing

(now move to 16)

4) open 2) in C3D 16 and try to saveit
      - no file was created - error (just for map2diso - c) )
      - file was sucesfully saved (for both a) and b) )

5) open 3) in C3D 16 and try to saveit
      - no file was created - error (just for map2diso - c) )
      - file was sucesfully saved (for both a) and b) )

6) open 2) in C3D 16 as Autocad try to save it - drawing was saved (for all a) b) c) )
7) open 3) in C3D 16 as Autocad try to save it - drawing was saved (for all a) b) c) )

All templates are in attachement

[jporter]

@jakubkares, I'm not sure if you're post should be in this discussion or an entirely new one, but I tested and did not get the same results you did.  Mine all saved fine and I was able to open the exported AutoCAD files and save those with ease as well.  .  

[akevinzz]

Dave,

As the product manager for Civil 3D, do you have any word or knowledge on the backwards incompatibility status with the upcoming 2018 release?

I'm sure that any early news or heads up on this would be greatly appreciated by all I'm sure.

Kevin 

[jporter]

As stated in earlier posts...the software was never supposed to be backward compatible. We got lucky over the past few years.

Also, if Dave does know the future of changes I'm pretty sure he couldn't comment on it. Anyone who knows anything of the future of the software is under NDA. I'm sure the shareholders wouldn't be happy either.

Jason Porter
Sent from my iPhone

[rkmcswain]

Do you have any word or knowledge on the backwards incompatibility status with the upcoming 2018 release?

Anyone who knows, can't say.
Anyone who says, doesn't know.

[jeffinitely]

When, Oh when, will an object enabler be available so that our clients who are using C3D 2014 can open and use our C3D 2017 data/drawings and actually use the surface, alignments, points (you know, CIVIL INFORMATION THAT IS VERY MUCH NEEDED TO DESIGN THINGS BETWEEN OFFICES)?????

I saw some object enabler mentioned here but I believe that it's for AutoCAD only https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/autocad-civil-3d/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2017/...

2017 should have come with a new toaster... wait... make that a used one that is sure to be "backwards compatible" with the past.

This is absolutely frustrating.  Why wasn't this issue flagged for customers purchasing/upgrading to 2017 especially for the first time?  You know, maybe mention that 'IF YOU BUY THIS, NOBODY ELSE WILL BE ABLE TO USE YOUR DATA UNLESS THEY HAVE 2017 OR YOU SPEND A LOT OF TIME CONVERTING IT BACK.

[rkmcswain]

@jeffinitely - this is nothing new. It's been the norm since Civil 3D came out. Each subsequent release has never been backwards compatible - with the exception of the C3D versions 2013-2016.

There has never been a 'backwards C3D object enabler' OE's are for other products (AutoCAD, Map, etc.) to read verticals.

As far as flagging the product? The readme is very clear about this, as well as tons of info online at release time, and there are clear warnings when you open a non-2017 drawing in C3D 2017 that tells you the ramifications.

If you just upgrade/dive in without a trial period, these are the problems you'll face.

[jeffinitely]

@rkmcswain Thanks for the prompt response...

In so many words, you say that this backwards compatibility issue has been the norm except for the most recent versions of C3D?  So basically, there is no norm.  The "norm" was to have a format change every three years: 2007, 08, 09 used 2007 format.  2010, 11, 12 used 2010 format.  Then 2013 format includes 13, 14, 15, uh 16, and uh 17?????  That's just a bit misleading don't ya think and I'll wait for my used toaster.

Our IT guy who supposedly checks the Read Me file must have missed the ReadMe.  You're right- it's very clearly written and I'm even more frustrated.

Our Autodesk reseller told me that he didn't even know about this issue until two weeks ago.  Frustration abounds.

Thanks again for the information.

[AllenJessup]

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@jeffinitely wrote:

  The "norm" was to have a format change every three years: 2007, 08, 09 used 2007 format.  2010, 11, 12 used 2010 format.  

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You're confusing AutoCAD Drawing Format with Civil 3D object compatibility. Different thing entirely. Civil 3D objects were only (Somewhat) backwards compatible for the last few releases. Before that they were never compatible with even the previously release.

[rkmcswain]

@jeffinitely - Yeah, what @AllenJessup said just above regarding DWG format vs. C3D Object Format.

*Caveat emptor*, and I'd research a new reseller, if they are serious about the information they told you. I can understand end users not researching things like this, but resellers should have known this from day 1, which was about 9 months ago.

[Glenn_Rimando]

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@jeffinitely wrote:

@rkmcswain Thanks for the prompt response...

In so many words, you say that this backwards compatibility issue has been the norm except for the most recent versions of C3D?  So basically, there is no norm.  The "norm" was to have a format change every three years: 2007, 08, 09 used 2007 format.  2010, 11, 12 used 2010 format.  Then 2013 format includes 13, 14, 15, uh 16, and uh 17?????  That's just a bit misleading don't ya think and I'll wait for my used toaster.

Our IT guy who supposedly checks the Read Me file must have missed the ReadMe.  You're right- it's very clearly written and I'm even more frustrated.

Our Autodesk reseller told me that he didn't even know about this issue until two weeks ago.  Frustration abounds.

Thanks again for the information.

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We're going through the same things issues and I brought this up in the forum a few months ago. 13-16 work well together using acad and civil 3d. Once you open up something in 2017 you can no longer use civil 3d functions in older versions and you cannot save like you did before. After a test projects it caused more trouble w/ workflow and efficientcy due to incompatibilty with older formats and working transfering/sharing files w/ clients.

We've been using 2013 since it came out in 2012 and got used all the files being compatible even when we upgraded versions all the way up to 2016 (which we are currently using).

My company will not go to 2017 however  we plan on revisiting the newer 2017+ format later down the road once it becomes more accepted and utilized with other companies and clients. I find that most companies are doing the same in our area (northwest).

[Glenn_Rimando]

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@rkmcswain wrote:
@jeffinitely - Yeah, what @AllenJessup said just above regarding DWG format vs. C3D Object Format.

*Caveat emptor*, and I'd research a new reseller, if they are serious about the information they told you. I can understand end users not researching things like this, but resellers should have known this from day 1, which was about 9 months ago.

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Agreed. The reseller should of warned us (however they were unaware when I asked for support on this). They didn't have a problem reminding me about subscription renewals though?!?!

[jporter]

I feel like some of us are repeating ourselves.  I wrote this on page 4 of the conversation:

And then I wrote this proving that this has been an ongoing issue:

Here's the actual link to read the mentioned blog: http://www.asti.com/News-Events/blogs/postid/1610/saving-civil-3d-drawings-back-earlier-versions-eas...  

And here's a new blog mentioning the same process but for 2017:   http://www.asti.com/News-Events/blogs/postid/1705/civil-3d-2017-not-so-easily-compatible-with-older-...  

The process in 2012 and in 2017 are almost exactly the same.  

As @rkmcswain pointed out (I think several times now) the readme file for 2017 clearly states this: http://help.autodesk.com/view/CIV3D/2017/ENU/?guid=GUID-589C3DC0-EC98-40BC-B8CD-4623AA79D763 

Again. . .we got lucky that there weren't many changes to the Civil 3D objects from 2013 - 2016 so therefore there compatibility seemed seamless.  But, as there were changes to civil objects from 2012 to 2013 we now have changes to civil objects from 2016 to 2017.  Thus, we have compatibility issues.  

There will be no patch, no service pack, no update, no object enabler.  It's not going to happen.  It didn't happen from the 2012 to 2013 jump.  

I know lots of engineering firms who have already adopted 2017.  There have been two approaches. . .

1. All users move to 2017 and all old projects migrated to 2017 and all new projects begin in 2017.  You cannot have this back and forth because someone feels more comfortable in older version of software.  So no users left behind.  

2. Dedicate a couple of users to keep the older software on their systems just to finish off any older projects, but begin any new projects in the 2017 software.    

[MGrof]

Stop doing work in 2017.  That is the solution?!!  This is terrible.

I have multiple projects that are completed screwed up now.  AutoCAD cannot update software every three years and break compatibility.  This is ridiculous.  We work across multiple companies using every version of the software from R10 to 2017. 

[rkmcswain]

MGrof wrote:

I have multiple projects that are completed screwed up now.  AutoCAD cannot update software every three years and break compatibility.  This is ridiculous.  We work across multiple companies using every version of the software from R10 to 2017. 

I'm probably restating this again, but YES!

They CAN

They WILL

They HAVE

This is no different that C3D 2006>2007 or 2007>2008 or 2008>2009 or 2009>2010 or 2010>2011 or 2011>2012 or 2012> 2013.

We just just fortunate that 2013-2016 didn't break anything.

[jmayo-EE]

Agreed. We were VERY fortunate. This was NEVER the norm.

[rkmcswain]

@jmayo and others.... don't get me wrong. I don't like it either. We've got 200+ C3D users here all on 2014 or 2017 or 2014+2017 and no end in sight.

And guess what? 2018 will probably be coming out in the next few months, and who knows if the format will be different again?

It's a huge mess, but what are you going to do? Switch to *****CAD ? No.

Autodesk knows this, so all of this is of little concern to them unfortunately.

They make money by renting new seats, not by making our life comfortable. It's easier to rent new seats when you have flashy new features, which in turn means you need new formats.