Windows and doors that span across floors

[1bdchristian]

I have been working with the architecture pack since the 2006 version, and now working on 2010 Architecture. I have faced this problem before and run out of time and just have to make do. one of the examples is have have several tall skinny windows that go along a stair well wall to the exterior and taper in height elevation to follow the pitch of the stairs. This means that serveral of the windows straddle the two floor lines. Any suggestions of how you would handle this on the two floor construct drawings so that the elevations develop correctly would be very appreciated.

Thanks in advance
Byron

[SMILES]

Byron,

I think ACA tells you to create a stair tower as an element and then insert it into the construct... That being said, I have found that way to be cumbersom. So I split my stairs at each floor as well, and I too have glazing that spans two floors sometimes, so I insert the window at the first floor (for a two story building example) and then create a mass element the size of the remaining window portion in the second floor and insert it in the wall as a body modifier (the subtracted version). My elevations come out perfectly, the only draw back is that if you move the window at the first floor, then you have to open the second floor and move the body modifier- its a coordination thing. Hope that helps!

SMILES
Steve Miles

[Anonymous]

xref the gf construct into the 2nd floor.
Add an opening to the 2nd floor construct to the same shape as the window.

Other way is to add a ME the shape and add as interference and put ME on non
print layer.


<1bdchristian> wrote in message news:6318679@discussion.autodesk.com...
I have been working with the architecture pack since the 2006 version, and
now working on 2010 Architecture. I have faced this problem before and run
out of time and just have to make do. one of the examples is have have
several tall skinny windows that go along a stair well wall to the exterior
and taper in height elevation to follow the pitch of the stairs. This means
that serveral of the windows straddle the two floor lines. Any suggestions
of how you would handle this on the two floor construct drawings so that the
elevations develop correctly would be very appreciated.

Thanks in advance
Byron

[Anonymous]

Better yet, create a simple opening in the 2nd floor wall, more easy to edit
when the window below changes...

"Nathan" escreveu na notícia da
mensagem:6318730@discussion.autodesk.com...
> xref the gf construct into the 2nd floor.
> Add an opening to the 2nd floor construct to the same shape as the window.
>
> Other way is to add a ME the shape and add as interference and put ME on
> non print layer.
>
>
> <1bdchristian> wrote in message news:6318679@discussion.autodesk.com...
> I have been working with the architecture pack since the 2006 version, and
> now working on 2010 Architecture. I have faced this problem before and run
> out of time and just have to make do. one of the examples is have have
> several tall skinny windows that go along a stair well wall to the
> exterior and taper in height elevation to follow the pitch of the stairs.
> This means that serveral of the windows straddle the two floor lines. Any
> suggestions of how you would handle this on the two floor construct
> drawings so that the elevations develop correctly would be very
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance
> Byron

[Anonymous]

Isn't that what I said?
Better yet. Put both floors in the same file!

"Fernando Morais - Brasil" wrote in message
news:6318732@discussion.autodesk.com...
Better yet, create a simple opening in the 2nd floor wall, more easy to edit
when the window below changes...

"Nathan" escreveu na notícia da
mensagem:6318730@discussion.autodesk.com...
> xref the gf construct into the 2nd floor.
> Add an opening to the 2nd floor construct to the same shape as the window.
>
> Other way is to add a ME the shape and add as interference and put ME on
> non print layer.
>
>
> <1bdchristian> wrote in message news:6318679@discussion.autodesk.com...
> I have been working with the architecture pack since the 2006 version, and
> now working on 2010 Architecture. I have faced this problem before and run
> out of time and just have to make do. one of the examples is have have
> several tall skinny windows that go along a stair well wall to the
> exterior and taper in height elevation to follow the pitch of the stairs.
> This means that serveral of the windows straddle the two floor lines. Any
> suggestions of how you would handle this on the two floor construct
> drawings so that the elevations develop correctly would be very
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advance
> Byron

[SMILES]

I disagree about the simple opening... With a mass element body modifier you can edit the body modifier and move the entire opening at once, or stretch the modifier if the opening changes. There are way more steps in editing each vertex of the "simple opening". Putting the first and second floor in one construct, defeats the purpose in my mind. I guess we all have different ways of doing it...- Byron should have plenty of options now!

SMILES

[Anonymous]

?? Openings would normally have width and height - no vertices unless the
window shape is complex. Easy to edit.

The problem with using an ME as a body modifier is you can only attach it to
1 wall componant at a time and have to leave it in place and subtract it to
each componant to remove the entire wall. If you are using a one componant
wall it's simple but not a complex wall style. I do use it to remove for
cnr windows but it's painful. (Openings tend to fail on internal corners).
You can use the ME as an interference item which will remove the whole wall
but it's not attached to the wall, won't move with the wall and has to be
then frozen on a non print layer but it's another option.

Defeats the purpose of what? If you are doing residential or smaller
commercial work working in a 1 file approach can simplify many things
including windows that span 2 floors. Check out www.visionrez.com They use
a 1 file approach. With some simple lisp and a layer key style I now also
work in 1 file and it's easier and solves a number of issues that occur
across x-ref's. Think about it. It was bagged in ACA but it's a plus in
Revit. What the?

cheers
www.ausaca.blogspot.com


wrote in message news:6319075@discussion.autodesk.com...
I disagree about the simple opening... With a mass element body modifier
you can edit the body modifier and move the entire opening at once, or
stretch the modifier if the opening changes. There are way more steps in
editing each vertex of the "simple opening". Putting the first and second
floor in one construct, defeats the purpose in my mind. I guess we all have
different ways of doing it...- Byron should have plenty of options now!

SMILES

[SMILES]

Whoa! Hey I did not mean to upset you... I just feel even with a 3 or 4 component wall, once the body modifier is in place it is pretty easy to move around and manipulate- but you are right there are a couple of extra steps up front, and if you do not plan to change the window- a simple opening would be great (our clients are always changing items, so I try to prepare for that). And I would also agree that for small projects like houses, one file drawings are appropriate. I work on larger commercial projects and need each floor seperate for the other disciplines to do there work, electrical, mechanical, etc... Point is, I guess there are a number of different ways to to achieve the same end result!

SMILES

[Anonymous]

No offence taken. I learn from arguing thru an idea and I better understand
what other's need are.
I would work in the PN too if I did larger projects (as I have done).
Cheers

wrote in message news:6319108@discussion.autodesk.com...
Whoa! Hey I did not mean to upset you... I just feel even with a 3 or 4
component wall, once the body modifier is in place it is pretty easy to move
around and manipulate- but you are right there are a couple of extra steps
up front, and if you do not plan to change the window- a simple opening
would be great (our clients are always changing items, so I try to prepare
for that). And I would also agree that for small projects like houses, one
file drawings are appropriate. I work on larger commercial projects and
need each floor seperate for the other disciplines to do there work,
electrical, mechanical, etc... Point is, I guess there are a number of
different ways to to achieve the same end result!

SMILES

[Anonymous]

Another option is to create a spanning wall (as in staircase) construct
containing the window.
Saves deleting the mid line in the aecelevation too.
Might be an option.

[Anonymous]

Create a shell construct spanning the number of floors you need and put the
windows in that construct. They will show up on both levels.


<1bdchristian> wrote in message news:6318679@discussion.autodesk.com...
I have been working with the architecture pack since the 2006 version, and
now working on 2010 Architecture. I have faced this problem before and run
out of time and just have to make do. one of the examples is have have
several tall skinny windows that go along a stair well wall to the exterior
and taper in height elevation to follow the pitch of the stairs. This means
that serveral of the windows straddle the two floor lines. Any suggestions
of how you would handle this on the two floor construct drawings so that the
elevations develop correctly would be very appreciated.

Thanks in advance
Byron

[jmcintyre]

Good question and I see we're getting some great suggestions in response.

There are a few ways of axhieving this as you can tell from the responses and it'll depend on your work flow. If the building has a number of levels then perhaps the spanning construct is the better option. In my experience, if doing a high-rise then a good method of dealing with constant vertical elements like lift shafts, stairs, curtain walls, risers is to place them all in a separate file (construct if usinf PN) and reference it in at the appropriate z value (or have PN look after it).

All that may be overkill for a 2 storey building, so you could try one of the options already suggested or you could add the same window/door to both levels at the appropriate height. I hesitate in suggesting this because if there are any changes you need to do so in 2 places and that's generally to be avoided. I'm assuming you will want the window/door to display in plan as well as in elevation, so why not have them in both files? You will have to be careful about scheduling if you are doing so. One of the duplicates needs to be on a separate layer so you can filter it out.

Good to see there are so many ways of achieving our desired outcomes.

[1bdchristian]

Wow, I am shocked at the great responses. My post usually go to a quite little corner and die. Since I feel I am having a situation many are I will attempt to explain more. Some of the ideas you have given me I have tried and the ones I have not I will begin to break them down to see if they work for me.

I am doing a fire station, I will clean up the dimensions and/or elevations that I mention for ease of discussion. Everyone knows it does not work this simple.

I have 4 bays for the apparatus that has a wall height of 24’-0”. Then I have the living and office area next that is two stories. Each floor accounts for 12’ of height for a total wall height of 24’-0”. Stairs – no problem that is a element and common thru the two floors by attaching to my constructs. Oh yes I am using PN so I have two constructs “xref-first” and “xref-second”, one element “stairs” One view “assembled”.

Just a side note this is easy but having just finished a Spanish Style Home with a winding stair well and windows winding with it along the stairs it is not so simple” I was almost back to manual drafting. So I think you can see why I am attempting to learn more ways to attack the seemingly impossible.

Back to my fire station. The apparatus doors are 18’-0” so they overlap the two floors. The solution is simple use 24’ total walls in the garage area and not stack. But this is the situation in its simplest form that I hope that I wasn’t missing something that Architecture has built in to handle this.

To also ask , Has anyone used an element that represents common walls on multiple floors. My first test at this project was to have a element of the common walls and as they were attached to first and second constructs they mitered fine but could not add openings to the elements. Could this possibly be a variable setting.

Thanks to everyone for your help.

[SMILES]

For what it is worth, I did a fire station about 6 months ago, and if I did not know better it was the exact same design you are talking about- 4 bays and an adjacent portion with two floors. I treated the apparatus portion and the adjacent first floor as the entire first floor construct, as there was really no second floor in the apparatus area. So my construct has the 24' walls around the bays and 12' at the first floor (or similar dimensions, dont remember off the top of my head). Then my second floor construct only had the second floor portion which would then stack to complete the model, the roof was was a third construct. I did not see any advantage of chopping the apparatus bays in half as it is not a true representation of the second floor (in my mind). The apparatus portion I then dashed in on the second floor plan for discussion purposes and just called it out as such. I hope this helps- it simplified my constructs and made for a smoother transition in the elevations and sections.

Good Luck,

SMILES
(Steve Miles)

[Anonymous]

Yes sometimes we work so hard to do what we think should be done when it can
be accomplished successfully another way that the software easily allows.
If you really want to see the higher cut of the main floor, use a spanning
construct as you would a stair. This will place the same walls down lower
in your view and will cut higher up. I wouldn't split those walls in two.
I don't see how using an element would help. They are really for repeating
items.
The spanning construct is the 'designed approach' to what you are trying to
achieve. For e.g. if you had highlight windows over your main garage, the
2nd floor can pick this up providing the cutplanes are appropriate.

Nathan
www.ausaca.blogspot.com
http://ausaca.blogspot.com/search/label/Roof


wrote in message news:6319432@discussion.autodesk.com...
For what it is worth, I did a fire station about 6 months ago, and if I did
not know better it was the exact same design you are talking about- 4 bays
and an adjacent portion with two floors. I treated the apparatus portion
and the adjacent first floor as the entire first floor construct, as there
was really no second floor in the apparatus area. So my construct has the
24' walls around the bays and 12' at the first floor (or similar dimensions,
dont remember off the top of my head). Then my second floor construct only
had the second floor portion which would then stack to complete the model,
the roof was was a third construct. I did not see any advantage of chopping
the apparatus bays in half as it is not a true representation of the second
floor (in my mind). The apparatus portion I then dashed in on the second
floor plan for discussion purposes and just called it out as such. I hope
this helps- it simplified my constructs and made for a smoother transition
in the elevations and sections.

Good Luck,

SMILES
(Steve Miles)

[1bdchristian]

Nathan
Thanks for the idea I did not think of bringing the cutplanes in to the picture. I hate to admitt it but I only mess with the cut planes when I have windows that don't show properly. I will add some high bay windows and give it a try.

[Anonymous]

Well you can mess with the cutplanes but what I meant was that if your PN
view shows the second floor with the ground floor garage told it belongs too
(spanning construct), the PN will attach it but at a lower level and will
now cut these walls at the higher level, in line with the 2nd floor. If you
have highlights, you may need to adjust that level to intersect these lites,
or perhaps override the wall style etc.


<1bdchristian> wrote in message news:6319560@discussion.autodesk.com...
Nathan
Thanks for the idea I did not think of bringing the cutplanes in to the
picture. I hate to admitt it but I only mess with the cut planes when I have
windows that don't show properly. I will add some high bay windows and give
it a try.

[1bdchristian]

Nathan
I got it - I may have not stated it correctly but I think I knew what you meant and putting togetter a test project in PN for me to work with and learn to be conformable with it before I attempt a working project with it.

Thanks and I will let you know how it comes out.

Byron Edited by: 1bdchristian on Jan 16, 2010 12:26 PM

[1bdchristian]

Nathan
I have attached my simple project. I was wondering if you could look at it and make sure I have as you explained. I am not sure how to bring in first floor on second and have it only show at second level

Thanks in advance - Byron