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Tool Palettes - dissimilar info Eric Bogenshutz and Matthew Stachoni?

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Message 1 of 13
mdhutchinson
629 Views, 12 Replies

Tool Palettes - dissimilar info Eric Bogenshutz and Matthew Stachoni?

I am on the learning curve with tool palettes for the first time, and have created a Network based Catalog using Eric Bogenshutz AU 2006 class as a guide.
He directs to put the path to the network tool palette in Options > Files > Tool Palettes File Location...
When I do this I see the palettes from the tool palette customize, but not the groups (Categories) that I created through Content Browser.

But I recently received Matthew Stachoni's AU 2008 through autodesk web support. I found his recorded AU class also... Matthew Stachoni doesn't suggest this... or am I wrong?
On some of the tool palettes on user's stations I see a pad lock icon... and on others I see the refresh icon...

Can you advise the correct way to do this?
Should the path be entered in Options > Files > Tool Palettes File Location?
Should the Corporate Catalog simply be added to the user's Catalog Library, then I-Drop into the workspace?
These two seem in opposition...??
12 REPLIES 12
Message 2 of 13
Anonymous
in reply to: mdhutchinson

If you want true opposition to Stachoni, follow this link and start at
page 7:
http://digitaleditiononline.com/publication/?i=25028
I think I should have put my contact information in my bio, so I could
get input from readers.

What it comes down to, is that the 'correct' way to do it is the one
that works for you.

The padlock icon simply means that the palette being referenced is set
to read-only, or in a location the user doesn't have write access to.
The refresh icon (I think) means the palette is shared from a Content
Browser Catalog. Honestly, I've never understood the details of how
that refresh process is supposed to work.

Good luck!

mdhutchinson wrote:
> I am on the learning curve with tool palettes for the first time, and have created a Network based Catalog using Eric Bogenshutz AU 2006 class as a guide.
> He directs to put the path to the network tool palette in Options > Files > Tool Palettes File Location...
> When I do this I see the palettes from the tool palette customize, but not the groups (Categories) that I created through Content Browser.
>
> But I recently received Matthew Stachoni's AU 2008 through autodesk web support. I found his recorded AU class also... Matthew Stachoni doesn't suggest this... or am I wrong?
> On some of the tool palettes on user's stations I see a pad lock icon... and on others I see the refresh icon...
>
> Can you advise the correct way to do this?
> Should the path be entered in Options > Files > Tool Palettes File Location?
> Should the Corporate Catalog simply be added to the user's Catalog Library, then I-Drop into the workspace?
> These two seem in opposition...??
>
Message 3 of 13
Anonymous
in reply to: mdhutchinson

There are really 2 different methods of sharing palettes with AutoCAD
Architecture and it sounds like you are trying to mix them together.

1. Options > Files > Tool Palettes File Location - with this method the
Content Browser is not typically utilized for sharing company palettes as
there is no real correlation between the Content Browser and the Options
path. The CAD Manager will usually create palettes into this Options folder
so that any user that has this folder specified in Options will
automatically see all of the palettes and the current information on the
palettes. The user should see the lock symbol on the palettes since the
folder should be read-only and not modifiable by the user.
2. Using the Content Browser - with this method, appropriate palettes are
copied to the user's workspace from the Content Browser and can be grouped
as desired. The process works well when not all users need the same
palettes, such as companies with multiple offices or users working on
specific project types. When a user drags a palette from anywhere within
the Content Browser, they will see the refresh button on the palette. When
the refresh button is selected, it synchronized the user's palette with the
associated palette in the Content Browser.

Experts are divided over which option to use, but a lot of it boils down to
your company's needs. I was previously in charge of ADT for a company with
15 nationwide offices that had varying needs for palettes since they used
different construction materials and techniques in different parts of the
country. Option 2 worked fantastic in that situation and option 1 would
have been a pain. With Option 2, users could use the palettes specific to
their regional office, but also had access to the palettes for other regions
when helping out another office. If you only have one office and everyone
does pretty much the same thing, Option 1 might be better for you and ignore
the Content Browser for your custom stuff.

You should be able to find the PDF file for the Content Browser class that I
taught at
Autodesk University 2007 and 2008. The class was "AB110-3 - Achieving
Contentment with the AutoCAD Architecture Content Browser'. Hopefully it
will help you understand the Content Browser portion better. The PDF is
1.9Mb in size, so it was too large to post.

Doug
www.dougbowersconsulting.com
blog: http://aectechtalk.wordpress.com



"mdhutchinson" wrote in message news:6301327@discussion.autodesk.com...
I am on the learning curve with tool palettes for the first time, and have
created a Network based Catalog using Eric Bogenshutz AU 2006 class as a
guide.
He directs to put the path to the network tool palette in Options > Files >
Tool Palettes File Location...
When I do this I see the palettes from the tool palette customize, but not
the groups (Categories) that I created through Content Browser.

But I recently received Matthew Stachoni's AU 2008 through autodesk web
support. I found his recorded AU class also... Matthew Stachoni doesn't
suggest this... or am I wrong?
On some of the tool palettes on user's stations I see a pad lock icon... and
on others I see the refresh icon...

Can you advise the correct way to do this?
Should the path be entered in Options > Files > Tool Palettes File Location?
Should the Corporate Catalog simply be added to the user's Catalog Library,
then I-Drop into the workspace?
These two seem in opposition...??
Message 4 of 13
strodeb
in reply to: mdhutchinson

As already stated, there are 2 ways to make palettes, the conventional AutoCAD way, or the vertical product way (Content Browser).

The Content browser allows you to build your block library in chunks, allowing users to only grab the chunks they need. however, if you update the blocks in the library, they have to refresh their version to see the changes, something they often forget or cant be bothered to do.

The AutoCAD library is less clever, as its 1 library for everyone, but it does auto update if you path it in options>files.

If you make the palettes in a structured way they really arn't that hard to navigate even if everyone's blocks are in there. If you think of it as a library of reference books its easy.

library
......books
.........chapters
..............verses,

Tool Palette
......Tool Palette Sets
............Tool Palettes
.................blocks

Tool Palette
.........M&E
................lights
.....................spot1
.....................spot2
.........Arch
................doors
.....................door1
.....................door2


The blocks in my library support 200+ people in 5 distinct disciplines, using the AutoCAD method they can all find their blocks with ease & importantly for what we do, they are always the latest & greatest blocks!
----------------------------------------------
Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so
Message 5 of 13
Anonymous
in reply to: mdhutchinson

On Tue, 8 Dec 2009 12:16:21 -0800, mdhutchinson <> wrote:

>I am on the learning curve with tool palettes for the first time, and have created a Network based Catalog using Eric Bogenshutz AU 2006 class as a guide.
>He directs to put the path to the network tool palette in Options > Files > Tool Palettes File Location...
>When I do this I see the palettes from the tool palette customize, but not the groups (Categories) that I created through Content Browser.
>
>But I recently received Matthew Stachoni's AU 2008 through autodesk web support. I found his recorded AU class also... Matthew Stachoni doesn't suggest this... or am I wrong?

No, you are not wrong, and I do not promote sharing palettes from a locked-down
network folder. I instead espouse the idea of everyone building their Tool
Palette Set with groups of palettes pulled down from central Catalogs that you
(the CAD Manager) creates, which are stored on the server. The Catalogs are set
to link their items when added to the Workspace.

That said, I do not criticize what Eric has put together. My preference to use
the tool system as designed by Autodesk is simply that - a preference. I
understand the benefits and issues with both approaches

The issues I have with centralizing Palettes on a locked down folder is that the
Tool System is based on XML (which is slow enough as it stands now), and each
Palette file is open, read and edited many times during a drawing session - even
when no changes are made. Having ACA constantly hit that server resource and be
denied from writing to those files is just additional overhead and can generate
redundant and possibly confusing error messages.

>Should the Corporate Catalog simply be added to the user's Catalog Library, then I-Drop into the workspace?

Yes. You can easily do this by SHIFT+R/Click on a Catalog > Export to Registry
File to create a .REG that, when imported on the user's machine, adds that
Catalog to their CBL. When I set up ACA on a user's machine I have a batch file
that imports the .REG that adds each standard shared Catalog.

Using iDrop is the mechanism by which the system is designed to function. The
Categories in the Catalog iDrop down to become Palette Groups.

Matt
matt@stachoni.com
Message 6 of 13
Anonymous
in reply to: mdhutchinson

Thank you for that information, Matt. Our tools are horribly slow to
execute. I thought it had to do with the fact that all our content is
in a single style template drawing (which I plan on splitting out when I
get the time). This post is the most compelling thing I've read to
persuade me to go back to the Content Browser system. The drawback I
still see is that you have to rely on the user to keep it updated, or do
it yourself at each station. Is it truly as simple as clicking the
refresh button, or do users need to often drag in content from the CB?

On 12/10/2009 8:04 AM, Matt Stachoni wrote:
> The issues I have with centralizing Palettes on a locked down folder is that the
>
> Tool System is based on XML (which is slow enough as it stands now), and each
> Palette file is open, read and edited many times during a drawing session - even
> when no changes are made. Having ACA constantly hit that server resource and be
> denied from writing to those files is just additional overhead and can generate
> redundant and possibly confusing error messages.
>

> You can easily do this by SHIFT+R/Click on a Catalog> Export to Registry
> File to create a .REG that, when imported on the user's machine, adds that
> Catalog to their CBL. When I set up ACA on a user's machine I have a batch file
> that imports the .REG that adds each standard shared Catalog.
>
> Using iDrop is the mechanism by which the system is designed to function. The
> Categories in the Catalog iDrop down to become Palette Groups.
>
> Matt
> matt@stachoni.com
>
Message 7 of 13
Anonymous
in reply to: mdhutchinson

I'm not Matt, but we endured the bad karakoe together at the final AU party
last Thursday. 🙂 That was the lamest AU party I have been at in the 14
years I have been going to AU.

Anyway...

You do need to rely on the users to pick the refresh button to update their
palettes, but I found that sending users an e-mail notifying them do it
worked very well. Once your get the palettes set up, they really don't
change very often. When I did update a palette, I just e-mailed users and
asked them to update the appropriate palette by picking the refresh button.
It was never an issue for us.

Do NOT have the palettes set to auto-refresh! That makes the palettes
refresh every time you open AutoCAD Architecture. While that sounds like a
good idea, it can make it take several minutes to open AutoCAD Architecture,
depending on the number of palettes you have.

Another thing to consider in the speed of using palettes is where styles are
stored, which you note right off. When you pick on a style tool on the
palette (such as a wall tool), the speed at which the tool is executed will
be affected by the size of the drawing where the style is stored. If you
put all of your custom styles in one master drawing file, it will take
longer to execute the tool that pulls the style from the master drawing. it
is better to make a few different master style files to store your custom
styles if you have very many. Notice how Autodesk has divided up their
styles, especially having multiple wall style files. This can really make a
huge difference in tool execution time.

As you can tell from my posts on this, my preference for using palettes is
to use them with the Content Browser.

Doug
www.dougbowersconsulting.com
blog: http://aectechtalk.wordpress.com



"Anthony Mason" wrote in message
news:6303566@discussion.autodesk.com...
Thank you for that information, Matt. Our tools are horribly slow to
execute. I thought it had to do with the fact that all our content is
in a single style template drawing (which I plan on splitting out when I
get the time). This post is the most compelling thing I've read to
persuade me to go back to the Content Browser system. The drawback I
still see is that you have to rely on the user to keep it updated, or do
it yourself at each station. Is it truly as simple as clicking the
refresh button, or do users need to often drag in content from the CB?

On 12/10/2009 8:04 AM, Matt Stachoni wrote:
> The issues I have with centralizing Palettes on a locked down folder is
> that the
>
> Tool System is based on XML (which is slow enough as it stands now), and
> each
> Palette file is open, read and edited many times during a drawing
> session - even
> when no changes are made. Having ACA constantly hit that server resource
> and be
> denied from writing to those files is just additional overhead and can
> generate
> redundant and possibly confusing error messages.
>

> You can easily do this by SHIFT+R/Click on a Catalog> Export to Registry
> File to create a .REG that, when imported on the user's machine, adds that
> Catalog to their CBL. When I set up ACA on a user's machine I have a batch
> file
> that imports the .REG that adds each standard shared Catalog.
>
> Using iDrop is the mechanism by which the system is designed to function.
> The
> Categories in the Catalog iDrop down to become Palette Groups.
>
> Matt
> matt@stachoni.com
>
Message 8 of 13
Anonymous
in reply to: mdhutchinson

Thanks for the input. Looks like I've got some work ahead of me...

On 12/11/2009 9:23 AM, Doug Bowers wrote:
> I'm not Matt, but we endured the bad karakoe together at the final AU party
> last Thursday. 🙂 That was the lamest AU party I have been at in the 14
> years I have been going to AU.
>
> Anyway...
>
> You do need to rely on the users to pick the refresh button to update their
> palettes, but I found that sending users an e-mail notifying them do it
> worked very well. Once your get the palettes set up, they really don't
> change very often. When I did update a palette, I just e-mailed users and
> asked them to update the appropriate palette by picking the refresh button.
> It was never an issue for us.
>
> Do NOT have the palettes set to auto-refresh! That makes the palettes
> refresh every time you open AutoCAD Architecture. While that sounds like a
> good idea, it can make it take several minutes to open AutoCAD Architecture,
> depending on the number of palettes you have.
>
> Another thing to consider in the speed of using palettes is where styles are
> stored, which you note right off. When you pick on a style tool on the
> palette (such as a wall tool), the speed at which the tool is executed will
> be affected by the size of the drawing where the style is stored. If you
> put all of your custom styles in one master drawing file, it will take
> longer to execute the tool that pulls the style from the master drawing. it
> is better to make a few different master style files to store your custom
> styles if you have very many. Notice how Autodesk has divided up their
> styles, especially having multiple wall style files. This can really make a
> huge difference in tool execution time.
>
> As you can tell from my posts on this, my preference for using palettes is
> to use them with the Content Browser.
>
> Doug
> www.dougbowersconsulting.com
> blog: http://aectechtalk.wordpress.com
>
>
>
> "Anthony Mason" wrote in message
> news:6303566@discussion.autodesk.com...
> Thank you for that information, Matt. Our tools are horribly slow to
> execute. I thought it had to do with the fact that all our content is
> in a single style template drawing (which I plan on splitting out when I
> get the time). This post is the most compelling thing I've read to
> persuade me to go back to the Content Browser system. The drawback I
> still see is that you have to rely on the user to keep it updated, or do
> it yourself at each station. Is it truly as simple as clicking the
> refresh button, or do users need to often drag in content from the CB?
>
> On 12/10/2009 8:04 AM, Matt Stachoni wrote:
>
>> The issues I have with centralizing Palettes on a locked down folder is
>> that the
>>
>> Tool System is based on XML (which is slow enough as it stands now), and
>> each
>> Palette file is open, read and edited many times during a drawing
>> session - even
>> when no changes are made. Having ACA constantly hit that server resource
>> and be
>> denied from writing to those files is just additional overhead and can
>> generate
>> redundant and possibly confusing error messages.
>>
>>
>
>> You can easily do this by SHIFT+R/Click on a Catalog> Export to Registry
>> File to create a .REG that, when imported on the user's machine, adds that
>> Catalog to their CBL. When I set up ACA on a user's machine I have a batch
>> file
>> that imports the .REG that adds each standard shared Catalog.
>>
>> Using iDrop is the mechanism by which the system is designed to function.
>> The
>> Categories in the Catalog iDrop down to become Palette Groups.
>>
>> Matt
>> matt@stachoni.com
>>
>>
Message 9 of 13
mdhutchinson
in reply to: mdhutchinson

With the shared palettes from Content Browser...
Does the click of the refresh button refresh all palettes in the current palette group... or does it refresh only the current palette?

I wonder if there might there be a programatic way to refresh the palettes on startup, and turn this on/off on an as need basis?

With the Options > Files > Path method... I wonder if there might be a programatic way to enable / disable the auto refresh option?
Message 10 of 13
mdhutchinson
in reply to: mdhutchinson

14 years to AU!!!!???

I've been trying to go for the last 14 years and can't seem to work out either my schedule or my supervisor.... I've never been successful.
Most of the time my schedule conflicts... I wish that Autodesk would move the new AutoCAD release schedule to Christmas... and AU to March. That makes more sense... new acad at christmas (a present under the tree)... AU in the spring when holiday schedule is less of an issue.
back to tool palettes... One other question... sort of related... have you ever experemented with a way to tell if your users are actually using your customization (ie, menu macros, lisp code, tool palettes, etc.? I've done some in the past by reporting to a text file when the user clicks on a button.
Message 11 of 13
Anonymous
in reply to: mdhutchinson

The refresh button only refreshes the one palette on which the refresh
button is selected.

I am not aware of any programmatic way of turning on/off the refresh
capability on startup.

The Options path method is not related to the auto refresh function at all.

Doug
www.dougbowersconsulting.com
blog: http://aectechtalk.wordpress.com



"mdhutchinson" wrote in message news:6304424@discussion.autodesk.com...
With the shared palettes from Content Browser...
Does the click of the refresh button refresh all palettes in the current
palette group... or does it refresh only the current palette?

I wonder if there might there be a programatic way to refresh the palettes
on startup, and turn this on/off on an as need basis?

With the Options > Files > Path method... I wonder if there might be a
programatic way to enable / disable the auto refresh option?
Message 12 of 13
Anonymous
in reply to: mdhutchinson

That's too bad that you haven't been able to make it. AU is a great week of
learning and networking.

I never felt a need to create customization to track users' usage of other
customization. Sorry.

Doug
www.dougbowersconsulting.com
blog: http://aectechtalk.wordpress.com



"mdhutchinson" wrote in message news:6304428@discussion.autodesk.com...
14 years to AU!!!!???

I've been trying to go for the last 14 years and can't seem to work out
either my schedule or my supervisor.... I've never been successful.
Most of the time my schedule conflicts... I wish that Autodesk would move
the new AutoCAD release schedule to Christmas... and AU to March. That
makes more sense... new acad at christmas (a present under the tree)... AU
in the spring when holiday schedule is less of an issue.
back to tool palettes... One other question... sort of related... have you
ever experemented with a way to tell if your users are actually using your
customization (ie, menu macros, lisp code, tool palettes, etc.? I've done
some in the past by reporting to a text file when the user clicks on a
button.
Message 13 of 13
Anonymous
in reply to: mdhutchinson

On Mon, 14 Dec 2009 08:02:31 -0800, mdhutchinson <> wrote:

>With the shared palettes from Content Browser...
>Does the click of the refresh button refresh all palettes in the current palette group... or does it refresh only the current palette?

Only the current palette.

>I wonder if there might there be a programatic way to refresh the palettes on startup, and turn this on/off on an as need basis?

No, auto-refresh is pretty much the work of the devil. Avoid it at all costs.

One way to refresh all of the palettes is to first set the "All Palettes" group
current, then hit "Refresh Palette Set."

http://rcd.typepad.com/rcd/2009/09/update-all-autocad-architecturemep-palettes-in-a-click.html

Matt
matt@stachoni.com

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