Lineweights etc for architectural drawings

[Horizonliner]

I am completely lost with the numerous settings for lineweights and plotstyles, having been used to Microstation where it is all simple: I would use layers with one colour to represent a type of object, e.g. walls in red, then vary the lineweight on the screen on the model itself, and then see it get thicker in front of me. I don't like the idea of having to remember what colour is what weight. Primitive! For this reason I've heard "Named plot styles" is more useful?

I work with construct models, then these are referenced into view drawings, then these are referenced into sheet drawings. So it is a 3 file structure. 

There are Layer Properties Managers in all 3. So WHERE do I set my lineweights for my drawings if I want to use a plot styles table, and how? Should I use "by layer" when I draw? Or should I draw objects already with a particular lineweight and colour. And if so where should I change the lineweight of my object? In the layer properties manager of my view drawing, or my sheet drawing. It's one big complete mess if you're working on your own and you haven't got a CAD manager to set this all up for you. All tutorials on the matter are very generic and I can't find anything which shows how views, models and sheets affect lineweights. 

I've got a template sheet file. In the page setup for this template sheet file, I've got a plot styles table set, which is where all my lineweights are set. Is this the correct thing to do?

[David_Knight]

You've asked a very complicated question.  I'm going to try to tackle part of it.  But first thing I want to get off my chest... Drawing with CTB's isn't bad mmmmmk 😛 it's not primitive.  It's just one way to do it.  I don't need to see the lineweights as I see it in my head as I draft either.  They are just ingrained in my head.  But... Let's not go down that path.  Let me help you with your question.

I'm not super familiar with plot styles.  But I do know you have to start with a plot style template or convert your drawing using CONVERTPSTYLES.  Once you start with a template, or convert your drawing you set your "plot style" to the pentype you wish to print.  In the case of the "AIA Standard" I have the following options: thin, normal, bold, extra bold, etc...  Once you set this, it defines how that layer will print.

If you want to visibly see it, you need to set your "lineweight" option in the layer dialog too.  Then you need to select "show lineweights" at the bottom left hand of your main window.  But I'd like to point out you can do this using a CTB as well.  This is not an STB or CTB setting.

Maybe someone else can jump in here and help out...

My understanding in the differences between an STB and a CTB is this:  STB are named styles that are supposed to be easier to remember.  Where as CTB's use 255 different pens each with their own settings.  CTB on the surface looks more complicated, but... Really it's no different.  Once you configure your pentable, it's the same.

I hope that... sorta helps.

[Horizonliner]

Well explained. Thanks. Sorts out a few initial mysteries. I think most offices are using CTB so I guess it is worth getting used to it, if there fundamentally is no differnece? But the main difference being a mentality really; in Microstation I used to like seeing my different systems in different colours; e.g. roofing in blue, walls in green etc. 

[David_Knight]

You can still assign single colors to all of those things, But they would all print the same.  There are ways to override it in viewports, But that becomes very cumbersome as overrides are not carried between drawings.

I was hoping someone could confirm my understanding of STB to CTB, as I do not use STB myself.

Our office used to use a few specific colors, But after I was hired I started to push to use more colors.  For example, our walls are always green.  But, the "guts" are always color 185.  That way the outline is nice and bright, stands out, and the innards are fairly dark and don't jump off the page.   Likewise we use color 125 for all existing conditions.  It's a muted green that just disappears when you're working.  Of course 125 prints the same as blue, and red for us.  But it's graphically different in cad so we can see it easily.

I think it's just a matter of how you want to do your work.

As a hint, you can either create a block with all the necessary layers and assign the correct lineweights (for your visual pleasure) and save it off somewhere.  That way when you purge your drawing you can just reinsert the block to recreate all the missing layers and assigned lineweights and colors.  Keep in mind this does not redefine existing layers.  

Alternately you could create a script to do this.  Then you could just run the script to redefine all layers.  Note, this would override any custom changes you've made within your drawing.  Here is a link to a recent thread where we discussed doing this.  There are 2 pages, page 1 discusses a non-redefining way, page 2 Dean brings up a way to redefine the layers if they already exist.

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/AutoCAD-Architecture-General/Redefine-Layers-from-template-file/td-p/4...

Hope this helps.

[David_W_Koch]

Any plot setting you can make in CTB plot style you can make in an STB plot style. The only difference is that in a CTB-based drawing file, the plot styles are assigned based on the effective color of an object/component and in an STB-based drawing file, you are freed from the tyranny of color=plotted output but you do then have to assign a plot style to layers and, where not ByLayer or ByBlock, to objects/components. The supposed greater use of CTB-based files is due more to the fact that this used to be the only way AutoCAD plotted and many find change a scary, scary thing, than to the superiority of CTB plotting. If you need to do both monochrome (black and screened black linework on white background) plotting for construction documents and color plotting for presentation or marketing graphics, then STB-based plotting makes life a lot easier, in my opinion. This is especially true if you need to do "hybrid" plotting, where the linework from what will be the construction document needs to remain black, but you add color fills to show an analysis of the design (room uses, room areas, room departments, etc.). Named plot styles allow you to use any color you want for the objects that need to plot black, without worrying if those colors might want to be used as a color fill. Using either method, you have to decide where you are going to set some of the plot parameters. Color, linetype, lineweight, line end style, line join style and fill style can be set in the plot style or in the drawing. The other settings have to be set in the plot style. (Note that if you choose to set line end style, line join style and fill style in the drawing, you will get the default values of rounded for line end and line join and solid for fill; there is no way to set any other value in the drawing. So, effectively, these must be set in the plot style if you want a different value.) My firm sets the linetype and lineweight in the drawing file, so our STB file has, in addition to the default/uneditable Normal plot style, four plot styles that get used for layers and any custom AEC content/display settings: Black, Screened Black, Color and Screened Color. The color for Black and Screened Black is set to Black; the color for Color and Screened Color is set to "Use object color". The Screening for Black and Color is set to 100; it is set to 40 for Screened Black and Screened Color. We also have a style called Standard that has its color set to Cyan. This is assigned to all non-plotting layers and is used as an "alert style" in plot previews, to warn that a layer that is not supposed to plot is not off/frozen in the plot area. (If the layer is set to be non-plotting, that is not an issue. But if faint linework shows up on a plot, it can help identify that a layer meant to be non-plotting has not been made so.) We also have a number of other plot styles in the file, to support the plotting of AEC content that goes back as far as the 2004 release. It is easier to carry those plot styles in the file than it would be to edit all of the display settings and content to only use our plot styles.

[David_W_Koch]

My apologies for the run-on post. There appear to be some formatting difficulties with the Discussion Groups at the moment.

[David_W_Koch]

This is what my first post in this thread was supposed to look like:

Any plot setting you can make in CTB plot style you can make in an STB plot style.  The only difference is that in a CTB-based drawing file, the plot styles are assigned based on the effective color of an object/component and in an STB-based drawing file, you are freed from the tyranny of color=plotted output but you do then have to assign a plot style to layers and, where not ByLayer or ByBlock, to objects/components.  The supposed greater use of CTB-based files is due more to the fact that this used to be the only way AutoCAD plotted and many find change a scary, scary thing, than to the superiority of CTB plotting.

If you need to do both monochrome (black and screened black linework on white background) plotting for construction documents and color plotting for presentation or marketing graphics, then STB-based plotting makes life a lot easier, in my opinion.  This is especially true if you need to do "hybrid" plotting, where the linework from what will be the construction document needs to remain black, but you add color fills to show an analysis of the design (room uses, room areas, room departments, etc.).  Named plot styles allow you to use any color you want for the objects that need to plot black, without worrying if those colors might want to be used as a color fill.

Using either method, you have to decide where you are going to set some of the plot parameters.  Color, linetype, lineweight, line end style, line join style and fill style can be set in the plot style or in the drawing.  The other settings have to be set in the plot style.  (Note that if you choose to set line end style, line join style and fill style in the drawing, you will get the default values of rounded for line end and line join and solid for fill; there is no way to set any other value in the drawing.  So, effectively, these must be set in the plot style if you want a different value.)

My firm sets the linetype and lineweight in the drawing file, so our STB file has, in addition to the default/uneditable Normal plot style, four plot styles that get used for layers and any custom AEC content/display settings:  Black, Screened Black, Color and Screened Color.  The color for Black and Screened Black is set to Black; the color for Color and Screened Color is set to "Use object color".  The Screening for Black and Color is set to 100; it is set to 40 for Screened Black and Screened Color.  We also have a style called Standard that has its color set to Cyan.  This is assigned to all non-plotting layers and is used as an "alert style" in plot previews, to warn that a layer that is not supposed to plot is not off/frozen in the plot area.  (If the layer is set to be non-plotting, that is not an issue.  But if faint linework shows up on a plot, it can help identify that a layer meant to be non-plotting has not been made so.)  We also have a number of other plot styles in the file, to support the plotting of AEC content that goes back as far as the 2004 release.  It is easier to carry those plot styles in the file than it would be to edit all of the display settings and content to only use our plot styles.