Architecture 2008

[Elard]

I just would to know if is true that the Architectural program (the old ADT) will disappear and replaced by Revit.
Thanks

[JMoore]

No. Didn't see where I asked for that and really confused why it is such a touchy subject. Is it such an unusual request? Why say something is great at something but have such issues posting a legit sample. That is just common sense and accountability for claims.

Conversation: "My widget is the fatest widget in the world!!!!" "Really, I would like that widget too. "Excellent sign here..." "Ummm, well can I see this widget first?" "Why would you want to do such a thing? I told you it was the fastest in the world". "Ummmm, yeah, thanks for calling". Don't freak out, just having some fun :))))

Seriously, do feel free to be enlighten yourself by searching for numerous posts and attachments from me in the ACA & ADT groups and galleries for numerous samples. BTW, thanks for the free ad time. I never mentioned anything about VisionREZ but much appreciated for you to bring it up.

And at your request I will further enlighten you tomorrow with a full set of CD's from AutoCAD Architecture and VisionREZ. It is not a problem for me to provide such a sample of the products end result. Have to do it every day for all customers and prospects we bring to the Autodesk intelligence family.

Cheers,
Jay

[Anonymous]

Groups were completely redone in Revit 2008 and in my experience work very
well now.

Still can't link in an Excel XLS directly, but it can be referenced into a
DWG, and then the DWG linked into Revit. What kind of data is in the Excel
documents? Maybe you don't need them in a Revit project?

"Tom DeMita" wrote in message
news:5765026@discussion.autodesk.com...
I use a lot of excel files that are linked, how is Revit with updated them?
Also I had problems with Revit groups, is that fixed yet?

Tom


"Scott Davis" wrote in message
news:5765021@discussion.autodesk.com...
do you have an installation CD?

At the same time, I have never seen a full set of CD's from VisonRez.
Please post one for us to be further enlightened.


wrote in message news:5764922@discussion.autodesk.com...
Any chance you could post a full 2D sample CD set output from Revit (no
editing with AutoCAD)? I have never seen one and I know many others have
not so I am sure many would find this very beneficial and enlightening.

Thanks
Jay

[Anonymous]

Attached is a small residential renovation/addition project using Revit
2008. I tried to take out all references of the client before creating the
pdf. It should give you some idea of what can be done. I have learned alot
more about the program since doing this one. I started this project on ADT
and decided since it was not to far along I would recreate it with Revit.
It was actually started using Revit Building 9.1 and completed with Revit
Architecture 2008. The site plan is an imported drawing from autocad that I
recieved from the surveyor. I added actual elevation heights to each of the
contours in autocad and let Revit create the ground plane directly from the
imported site plan.That was actually pretty slick. The only other things
that I remember that were autocad generated was the whirlpool tub in the
master bath and some of the pedestal sinks that were manufacturers autocad
detals that I downloaded, modified and used to create the families for use
with Revit. Everything else was done in Revit.

wrote in message news:5764922@discussion.autodesk.com...
Any chance you could post a full 2D sample CD set output from Revit (no
editing with AutoCAD)? I have never seen one and I know many others have
not so I am sure many would find this very beneficial and enlightening.

Thanks
Jay

[JMoore]

EXCELLENT! And the crowds roar with joy and praise!!! Seriously, cdv, thank you. I appreciate you sharing your drawing set. For some reason there are those that feel asking for proof or a sample is like taking the Lords name in vain. I have no idea why this is has been such a difficult thing to do and such problem to ask for.

Nice work and again thank you for having the courage to post a sample and elaborate on the details and information on how you completed the work. Your candor is much appreciated and respected.

Thanks
Jay

[Anonymous]

I asked if you have a CD, because customer samples of projects in all stages
come on the CD, including a full CD set from BNIM Architects.. Not touchy,
just asked if you had a CD. And I'm just informing the rest of the public
here that they can see some examples by getting a Revit CD.

And yes, you have been pretty good about mentioning your company lately,
which wasn't always the case 😉 . There is still the occasionnal post in
the gallery of a "glossy" shot with a mention of being produced with
VisionRes and Viz/Max. 🙂 (really, said with a smile....c'mon, we're
*partners* now....)


wrote in message news:5765047@discussion.autodesk.com...
No. Didn't see where I asked for that and really confused why it is such a
touchy subject. Is it such an unusual request? Why say something is great
at something but have such issues posting a legit sample. That is just
common sense and accountability for claims.

Conversation: "My widget is the fatest widget in the world!!!!" "Really, I
would like that widget too. "Excellent sign here..." "Ummm, well can I see
this widget first?" "Why would you want to do such a thing? I told you it
was the fastest in the world". "Ummmm, yeah, thanks for calling". Don't
freak out, just having some fun :))))

Seriously, do feel free to be enlighten yourself by searching for numerous
posts and attachments from me in the ACA & ADT groups and galleries for
numerous samples. BTW, thanks for the free ad time. I never mentioned
anything about VisionREZ but much appreciated for you to bring it up.

And at your request I will further enlighten you tomorrow with a full set of
CD's from AutoCAD Architecture and VisionREZ. It is not a problem for me to
provide such a sample of the products end result. Have to do it every day
for all customers and prospects we bring to the Autodesk intelligence
family.

Cheers,
Jay

[Anonymous]

also, I was going to post a DWF set of the BNIM project thats on the Revit
CD, but its a large project. The DWF file is 48 megs.

"Scott Davis" wrote in message
news:5765033@discussion.autodesk.com...
I asked if you have a CD, because customer samples of projects in all stages
come on the CD, including a full CD set from BNIM Architects.. Not touchy,
just asked if you had a CD. And I'm just informing the rest of the public
here that they can see some examples by getting a Revit CD.

And yes, you have been pretty good about mentioning your company lately,
which wasn't always the case 😉 . There is still the occasionnal post in
the gallery of a "glossy" shot with a mention of being produced with
VisionRes and Viz/Max. 🙂 (really, said with a smile....c'mon, we're
*partners* now....)


wrote in message news:5765047@discussion.autodesk.com...
No. Didn't see where I asked for that and really confused why it is such a
touchy subject. Is it such an unusual request? Why say something is great
at something but have such issues posting a legit sample. That is just
common sense and accountability for claims.

Conversation: "My widget is the fatest widget in the world!!!!" "Really, I
would like that widget too. "Excellent sign here..." "Ummm, well can I see
this widget first?" "Why would you want to do such a thing? I told you it
was the fastest in the world". "Ummmm, yeah, thanks for calling". Don't
freak out, just having some fun :))))

Seriously, do feel free to be enlighten yourself by searching for numerous
posts and attachments from me in the ACA & ADT groups and galleries for
numerous samples. BTW, thanks for the free ad time. I never mentioned
anything about VisionREZ but much appreciated for you to bring it up.

And at your request I will further enlighten you tomorrow with a full set of
CD's from AutoCAD Architecture and VisionREZ. It is not a problem for me to
provide such a sample of the products end result. Have to do it every day
for all customers and prospects we bring to the Autodesk intelligence
family.

Cheers,
Jay

[JMoore]

Fair enough. Perhaps I was a bit short in my response and you are correct that a big issue with getting relevant samples on a discussion group is the attachment size limitation. cdv, posted a very nice sample set he completed using a combination of a start in ADT and wrap up in Revit.

And promoting of names...we know everybody does that in here and why not. If it is relevant I have no issue with somebody telling us about their solution, feature, idea or company. Put your company information in your signature and you are advertising. Nada wrong with that.

"Partners", don't get funny on my now, I wouldn't go that far! :))) Seriously, always a good time rattling sabers with you but we both know at the end of the day we are both looking in the same direction just opposite sides of the street. I said that before and really liked it so was looking for an opportunity to mention it again.

If you go to AU swing by our booth and let's formally meet. If you stop by during the AUGI Beer Bust I'll buy your first round 🙂 Outta here for the night, NBA season is starting and I have to get my fix.

Thanks
Jay

[Anonymous]

well, really, we *are* partners...I work for Autodesk. You are an ISV
Partner, right? I missed your webcast on Monday although I was hoping to
see it. (for all those that are wondering if you missed it, this was an
internal Autodesk webcast...) Hope it was recorded so I can take a look.



wrote in message news:5765099@discussion.autodesk.com...
Fair enough. Perhaps I was a bit short in my response and you are correct
that a big issue with getting relevant samples on a discussion group is the
attachment size limitation. cdv, posted a very nice sample set he completed
using a combination of a start in ADT and wrap up in Revit.

And promoting of names...we know everybody does that in here and why not.
If it is relevant I have no issue with somebody telling us about their
solution, feature, idea or company. Put your company information in your
signature and you are advertising. Nada wrong with that.

"Partners", don't get funny on my now, I wouldn't go that far! :)))
Seriously, always a good time rattling sabers with you but we both know at
the end of the day we are both looking in the same direction just opposite
sides of the street. I said that before and really liked it so was looking
for an opportunity to mention it again.

If you go to AU swing by our booth and let's formally meet. If you stop by
during the AUGI Beer Bust I'll buy your first round 🙂 Outta here for the
night, NBA season is starting and I have to get my fix.

Thanks
Jay

[Anonymous]

Wow! So thats how Adesk treats it's partners?
I thought they would have been happy for what VisionRez has done.
Adesk didn't seem to be bothered.
Sounds like a bit of back-tracking to me.
You should be pleased that they filled the hole.
Keeping posing Jay! I enjoy your images.

"Scott Davis" wrote in message
news:5765033@discussion.autodesk.com...
I asked if you have a CD, because customer samples of projects in all stages
come on the CD, including a full CD set from BNIM Architects.. Not touchy,
just asked if you had a CD. And I'm just informing the rest of the public
here that they can see some examples by getting a Revit CD.

And yes, you have been pretty good about mentioning your company lately,
which wasn't always the case 😉 . There is still the occasionnal post in
the gallery of a "glossy" shot with a mention of being produced with
VisionRes and Viz/Max. 🙂 (really, said with a smile....c'mon, we're
*partners* now....)


wrote in message news:5765047@discussion.autodesk.com...
No. Didn't see where I asked for that and really confused why it is such a
touchy subject. Is it such an unusual request? Why say something is great
at something but have such issues posting a legit sample. That is just
common sense and accountability for claims.

Conversation: "My widget is the fatest widget in the world!!!!" "Really, I
would like that widget too. "Excellent sign here..." "Ummm, well can I see
this widget first?" "Why would you want to do such a thing? I told you it
was the fastest in the world". "Ummmm, yeah, thanks for calling". Don't
freak out, just having some fun :))))

Seriously, do feel free to be enlighten yourself by searching for numerous
posts and attachments from me in the ACA & ADT groups and galleries for
numerous samples. BTW, thanks for the free ad time. I never mentioned
anything about VisionREZ but much appreciated for you to bring it up.

And at your request I will further enlighten you tomorrow with a full set of
CD's from AutoCAD Architecture and VisionREZ. It is not a problem for me to
provide such a sample of the products end result. Have to do it every day
for all customers and prospects we bring to the Autodesk intelligence
family.

Cheers,
Jay

[JMoore]

Yeah I knew you were working for Autodesk now. Aren't you a BSD Consultant?

The webcast was not recorded but Bill will send out some quick recorded "bits" to the sales team today.

Thanks
Jay

[JMoore]

Thanks Nathan. You know I'll keep posting samples of the good things that the ACA platform allows us to achieve. 🙂

Thanks,
Jay

[Anonymous]

"I found that the application allows you to perform "illegal" operations
such as moving furniture into walls, elevators out of their cores, and so
on, without even a warning.....Thus, Revit by itself does not ensure model
integrity.......An example of a BIM application that ensures model integrity
by not allowing, for example, furniture to cut into walls, is VisionREZ"
from a review on Revit on the web site aecbytes.com 2005.

You guys are doing something right.


wrote in message news:5765499@discussion.autodesk.com...
Thanks Nathan. You know I'll keep posting samples of the good things that
the ACA platform allows us to achieve. 🙂

Thanks,
Jay

[JMoore]

Attachment limit makes it impossible to get a full CD / Model / Rendering set on the groups. However, following is a link to a ZIP file containing DWF files for a completed set of 2D construction documents (with property links to windows and doors), 3D models of (5) elevations and (2) design visualization renderings for a Top 20 production builder.

Link provided via ProjectShare / VUDOX collaboration site:
http://client.vudox.com/vudox/psxtends/applications/files/projectarea/vudox666783m1/project/ame382006113649amr35193528722263563/ftp/ACA_VREZ_Sample_Set.zip

Apologies for link size/length. Better than nothing. Download is 15MB

Disclaimer: Production work was completed with the AutoCAD Architecture platform + VisionREZ 3rd party software. So not all functions or features viewed in the set are available in standard ACA. Models were exported to Autodesk VIZ for rendering application.

Happy Halloween to all time to go turn on the foggers for the kiddos!

Thanks
Jay

[JMoore]

Thanks Nathan. We always appreciate your support. We have a sister company in your region "Pryda" (www.pryda.com) that we might be doing some work / linking with in the near future so hopefully have something more meaningful for your needs / region soon.

Thanks
Jay

[tomislav_zigo]

Just out of curiosity. How many ADSK consultants over what period of time was helping BNIM to get where they are today with Revit. Can everyone afford that kind of attention, or this is OOTB perk that comes with Revit as well?
I am really retting tired from these comparison treads. In my view and I learned this the hard way, whatever gets the job done to a clients satisfaction is what people should use, and forcing people to make an investment just because someone thinks that they can tell them what is the right way to do business is plan wrong.
I use both application, and both of them can drive me crazy on a regular basis, the sad part is that one is being neglected over the other for the reasons that are not performance driven. Let us not forget that the quality of a application is also reflected in its UI as being one of the features, and what makes me really suspicions is why is one so hard to improve?

my2c

Tomislav
http:\\bimology.blogspot.com

[JMoore]

Tomislav,

In my opinion discussion groups are not a good or accurate representation of the overall market. In comparison the numbers of active posters in these groups are probably a tiny fraction of the core userbase.

So you are reading and getting opinions from a ton of "innovator" types and some in the large majority that have been around for awhile. If you look at these types of threads there are usually no more than a handful of people lobbing stones across each others castle.

So while it is somewhat fun and entertaining the people that really know where things are going are rarely in these groups. This is somewhat like YouTube without video capability. Anybody can say anything, make any claim, be anybody they want to be and not have to show any proof of a claim or even who they really are. That is the pro and con of the Internet world. It is so easy to create "unsubstantiated" hype that groups will flock to but will leave when the next big thing gets "hype" notice and funding.

In my opinion, if somebody puts more than 5% weight on their product selection from these, or any, groups then they are borderline foolish. These places are good for developing ideas and a direction but if you make a product selection by simply watching a slick scripted demo from a demo jock, or believing all that you read here then you will most certainly turn to regret that decision in time,

A program will not tell you what it can do for your organization in the first 80-90%%. It's the last 10% that you better get to and evaluate because that last bit can cause you more loss in time and productivity than the prior 90% did for you. I would say most buy after seeing less than 20% proven to them and find out the hard way the last 10 stops them in their tracks.

My 2 cents of course 🙂

Jay

[tomislav_zigo]

Jay,

I tend to agree with you on subject of appropriates of the discussion groups being the place where one should base their business decision. Also observation about the participants that have a deeper insight in what the strategic course of software companies, being somewhat distanced from these discussion is an excellent one, and it is worth mentioning that besides product managers, it is quite impossible to find anything coming from product designers.
However the aspect that I find worrisome is the fact that an average principal in an AEC firm is quite removed from technology understanding and at the same time quite aware of the technology marketing.
This marketing is not coming only from the software manufacturers but also from the industry peers that see this as a chance to establish their position within their professional organizations, like AIA, AISC or CSI.
Here is an example. Thanks to my consulting I manage to get an insight in the CAD / BIM related correspondence between the various firms, as well as some that is coming from past and future clients. Recently, architectural design offices and some FM departments within large institutions started to dispatch the letter of their conviction about one product and the paths that they will undertake in order to became or stay on the cutting edge(might became bleeding as well). Very often the included sentence was about their expectation that all of the consultants on the job will be conforming to BIM standards, and deliver the product as BIM compliant model. BIM standards – what BIM standards? Nobody is asking that one crucial question!!!
Needless to say that the smaller firms reading these statements, automatically think that buying a certain software package will place them on track of BIM compliancy because this is what they were told by their resellers and the junior staffers, reading, amongst the other things, these very discussion groups.
I really feel that this is the critical time for an independent evaluation of the available software, and keep this removed as far as possible form resellers, professional organizations and biased peer reviews.

Regards,

Tomislav
http:\\bimology.blogspot.com

[JMoore]

Absolute perfection in your assessment. Honestly, there is nothing else to be said as you said it all.

Thanks
Jay

[Anonymous]

On Thu, 1 Nov 2007 16:51:02 +0000, JMoore <> wrote:

>In my opinion discussion groups are not a good or accurate representation of the overall market. In comparison the numbers of active posters in these groups are probably a tiny fraction of the core userbase.

A tiny fraction, yes, but the most important fraction nevertheless.

People who frequent these discussion groups are obviously passionate and
no-nonsense about the products, and want to get/give advice/help/tips from
others.

Your run-of-the-mill great unwashed user who chooses not to participate in such
a learning environment deserves every crash they get.

>In my opinion, if somebody puts more than 5% weight on their product selection from these, or any, groups then they are borderline foolish.

Well, where ELSE are you going to get an idea of how real people interact with
the software? Where ELSE are you going to be able to see the potential good
_and_ bad in a particular package? Where ELSE are you going to be able to read
real-life situations about recurring problems which may turn out to be clear
deal killers for your particular business?

Resellers? Only if you invest in hands-on training before you make the decision
to invest in the software itself. And even then, a four day class is going to
give you a glimpse of the potential, but because it is not a complete real world
situation - it's still mostly canned content to allow you to go through the
motions.

Traveling BIM salesmen who show off prepackaged dog and pony shows and will
gladly try to sell you sunshine and lollipops? Newp.

The Autodesk web site? Hee hee hee.

> These places are good for developing ideas and a direction but if you make a product selection by simply watching a slick scripted demo from a demo jock, or believing all that you read here then you will most certainly turn to regret that decision in time,

I would place my bets on the folks here over the demo jocks any day given most
other current choices.

But where else between the slick demo jocks and the in-the-trenches grunts here
would you suggest people go to learn to be able to make informed decisions?

>A program will not tell you what it can do for your organization in the first 80-90%%. It's the last 10% that you better get to and evaluate because that last bit can cause you more loss in time and productivity than the prior 90% did for you. I would say most buy after seeing less than 20% proven to them and find out the hard way the last 10 stops them in their tracks.

I agree completely, but that is the nature of any complex thing you drop a lot
of cash on. Be it BIM software or a BMW - you aren't going to know how well it
fits you until you drive it for a couple thousand miles.

The difference is that you can sell your BMW. 🙂

Matt
mstachoni@verizon.net
mstachoni@bhhtait.com

[Anonymous]

>"Matt Stachoni" wrote in message
>news:5767198@discussion.autodesk.com...
>On Thu, 1 Nov 2007 16:51:02 +0000, JMoore <> wrote:

>Traveling BIM salesmen

Considering I would probably get lumped into that title, I have to say my
role as an Autodesk Technical Specialist is nowhere near that description.
I cannot go into a firm with preconceived ideas about what software may be
right or wrong for them. (no matter how hard that may be for me considering
my Revit background....but remember, I do have an AutoCAD background as
well) We, as Techinical Specialist, go through sales training, where its
completely NOT about being the "demo jockey". In fact quite the opposite.

My role is to first go listen to the customer. How are they working now?
What kinds of projects? What's the firms culture? What software are they
using currently? Why are they considering switching to something else? We
analyze all of that information, and then demostrate how a particular piece
of software best fits with that particular firm. I NEVER give a "canned
demo". Every firm I go to has been researched ahead of time. I look at
their website, or call a key person, and find out a little about them first,
and tailor any demo I may give to that particular firm. Furthermore, I'm in
this postion at Autodesk because I do have industry experience. I spent the
last 8 years at an architectural firm and 4 years before that at one of the
worlds largest construction and engineering firms. I've been there, I've
seen it, I've done it. I can relate to a customer when they tell me why
they do business a certain way.

To stereotype a group of people that work hard to help firms make the best
decision possible as "traveling salesmen" just couldn't be more wrong.