Tool Palette not exploding properly

[GilesPhillips]

I have a series of block references in a tool palette which I want to explode once inserted. Simple I think, just set the 'explode' property on the tool palette icon.

Wrong. What actually happens is that in my case where the block refernce is simply two blocks inserted on different layers, the tool palette will insert onto the layer specified, and then explode, moving each block from its original later, onto the layer the host block is inserted on.

For example:

BlockRef_A consists of two enties:

• BockRef_1 on Layer1
• Blockref_2 on Layer2

Using the tool palette to insert and explode using the 'use current' for the destination layer, I get the following:

BlockRef_1 on 0

BlockRef_2 on 0

Both the destionation layer (Layer1 Layer2) already exist in the target drawing. 

It looks to me like autocad is importing the block, exploding it, moving it to the required layer.

This doesn't happen to any other entities, if there's a block that consists of a mix of parts, only the block references within it get moved to the destination layer.

I'm guessing this is a bug - can anyone else say they have experienced it?

G

[pendean]

No bug, that sounds like your block was created differently than your other ones: your block's content is not what you want, so fix the source block to be what you want, not what it is.

You need more than just simple EXPLODE command with this block if it is to remain unlatered, as the core feature only takes out the top level 'block" and not the bottom set. What you want is not a core feature of the program, you will need to customize with lisp (or manually EXPLODE (or BURST) after the initial Explode then clean up).

[GilesPhillips]

Um, block content is what I want.

If I import another way (or import using tool palette and not set to explode) then explode manually things appear on the right layers. It's only the 'auto-explode' on the tool palette that's doing it wrong.

The simple explode command works fine when invoked manually.

[pendean]

Do you have the "USE CURRENT LAYER" option selected in the TP Properties for the tool? Otherwise I cannot repeat the issue here, sorry.
Share the block in question for others to try if you wish.

[GrantsPirate]

I tried to reproduce your issue and was unable to do it.  It seems to work fine here at least, 2014 Mechanical.

[GilesPhillips]

This bug is definitely in MEP2013, and also vanilla 2013.  Setting the destination layer to 'use current' makes no difference.

The source file in question is rather large, I'll try to mock up something to upload later today.

thanks for trying

G

[GilesPhillips]

Okay, here's an example file to prove the point.

In the attached file there's 3 blocks: BLOCKA, BLOCKB and BLOCKX

BLOCKX simply consists of BLOCKA & BLOCKB arranged next to each other, you'll see that within BLOCKX, BLOCKA is inserted on LayerA and BLOCKB is inserted on LayerB

Here's my workflow:

• Create a new empty dwg file, this will be the destination.
• Create a new layer, say LayerDestination, make it a nice shade of blue.
• Create a new empty tool palette.
• Use the design centre to browse to the blockexptest.dwg file and drag BLOCKX from it onto the tool palette.
• Right-click on the BLOCKX tool and on the properties change EXplode to Yes and Layer to LayerDestination.
• Click on the tool to invoke the insert
• Notice how the ghost preview of the block clearly shows BLOCKA as red (suggesting it's on layerA) and BLOCKB as green (suggesting it's on layerB)
• Click to place the block
• Notice how the single BLOCKX has now been replaced with BLOCKA and BLOCKB both inserted on LayerDestination and are that nice shade of blue.
• Also notice that LayerA and LayerB have been brought into the drawing, despite them not being used.
• Understand my frustration as I was wanting BLOCKA to remain on LayerA and BLOCKB to remain on LayerB yet still be independant blocks.

Does the above happen the same for anyone else?

G

[dbroad]

I get the same thing.  What happens is unexpected but I am not sure that I am ready to call it a bug.  It could be operating as designed.  

Certainly is a problem if you want the nested blocks to remain on LayerA and LayerB respectively.

[GilesPhillips]

I'd be tempted to call it a bug, as I think exploding block should be consistent regardless of how it's invoked.

I think it's an error in the coding, as the behavior is reasonable if looked at in a programatical way:

Start InsertFromToolPalette
   Import block from source file to current drawing block table
   Insert block reference at mouseclick
   If explode option is yes then explode imported block
   Move imported block(s) onto layer specified in options.
End InsertFromToolPalette

 The last two pseudocode commands are out of sequence yet only manifest themselves in this scenario.

[pendean]

>>>...change EXplode to Yes and Layer to LayerDestination....<<<
That's what you seem to have told AutoCAD to do:
"Notice how the single BLOCKX has now been replaced with BLOCKA and BLOCKB both inserted on LayerDestination and are that nice shade of blue."

Your BLOCKX contains both layers, they will come in to your drawing no matter what, it's how AutoCAD works. PURGE to get rid of them if they remain unused, LAYDEL command otherwise. AutoCAD seems to be doing what you asked, not what you think it should do if I understood your procedure an d if I did it correctly.

OOPS, forgot to add the screenshots... THE OTHER OPTIONS ARE OVERRIDING THE EXPLODE FINAL RESULT is the conclusion, "bug" or "per design" or "oversight by software designer" label is for others to decide.

[GilesPhillips]

the thing is, if you're exploding the block then the destination layer should be irrelevent, but what's happening is that the autocad is moving any blocks after exploding onto the specified layer.

If you were to explode a block of blocks from the command line, you wouldn't expect them all to be moved to the current layer - why should it do it when inserting from a Tool palette?

If it's not a bug, it's an unwanted feature in my mind. I suppose it is doing what I ask, but the dialogue in which I'm being asked is constrained in a limiting way..

There's a passage from a Douglas Adams book (Dirk Gentleys Holistic Dectective agency) that springs to mind, concerning a dialogue where the batty professor asks the protagonist if he wants tea:

"...would you like some tea?"

"yes please"

"milk?"

"yes please"

"Sugar?"

"No thankyou"

"one lump or two?"

"......?"

G

[GrantsPirate]

Instead of dragging and dropping your combined block to the tool palette open the cui, find the insert command, drag and drop that to the tool palette.  Now edit that in the command line for

insert *blockx

add the path to the block rather than what I have shown.

The asterisk will explode the block in the manner you are after.  I have to believe the other command is written to do exactly what it is doing by moving the two blocks to the layer specified.

[GilesPhillips]

That's a good idea.
Okay, it's more work, but at least it gets things behaving the way I want (not tried it yet, I've got about 30odd blocks that'll need this treatment)

Thanks for the tip, I never considered modifying the original insert command..

G

[pendean]

Like I said, it may be a missed opportunity by the tool designers so comparing one tool with another is not relevant but worth expecting since EXPLODE command is the older of the two tools and all should behave the same.

Feel free to report it, it may get addressed eventually as I can't believe you are the first one ever to notice after all these years of TP being used. I persnally use ADCENTER or INSERT instead of TPs, plus a dozen of so customizations for things like you are doing.

[GrantsPirate]

The options in the toolpalette most resemble the XPLODE command, but with some choices missing.  So I think it is obvious that the explode option in that initial toolpalette dialog is not the same as the explode option in the insert dialog.

Leave it to AutoCAD to have 4 or 5 ways to do almost the same thing.

[David.Pullin]

Having a similar issue... but my block is dynamic with an alignment parameter to insert on a wall no matter the angle.  Using the above sugesstion, the alignment parameter is ignored on the insertion.  Any way around that? 

^C^C_insert;*recep_data_demo_combo;\;1;

If not I suposed I will have to figure out a lisp to select these blocks and burst them but that's going to be a bigger pain I think!

[jcartigny]

Pendean writes: "USE CURRENT LAYER option selected in the TP Properties for the tool? "

Where do I find and set this option ?

[ajbs]

In either AutoCAD 2016 or 2018, right-click the tool in the Tool Palette and Properties.  Then click the Layer down arrow and scroll all the way to the bottom.  Exact wording is "-- use current".  

[ajbs]

I have noticed this issue in AutoCAD 2012, 2016 and 2018 and it has caused many a sleepless night.  If it hasn't been submitted as an issue, it should be.  It makes using any sort of nested blocks with ByBlock properties impossible to use, especially if those blocks are on separate layers.

There is no added benefit of overriding the layer of all nested block references, yet leaving the other elements unaffected by the layer selected in the Tool Palette.

If this wasn't originally submitted as an issue, can someone please submit it, or am I capable of submitting it myself without having to create another post?  I am new to these forums...or at least posting on these forums

[cadffm]

@ajbs
If you like command insert, use command insert.
If you like the toolpalette insert-tool, use this.

This are two different things..

Feel free to use a macro-tool with command insert, with the limitation of that command that only insert internal blocks or external dwg, not internal blocks of external dwgs.
(For that you have to insert the whole dwg, cancel the command or erase the blockreference, then you can insert a block.

Toolpalette insert-tool inserting the block content (and apply your other tool properties to the created objects).
Command insert create a blockreference and explode then (or it is only working in this kind)