Stick with versionR 2014 and drop out of subscription???

[RAFUSE]

I have remained on R2014 because of the huge dissatisfaction with R2015 on this forum.  Basic issues that never should have occurred!

I am also fed up with the ribbon and that the "Classic" interface is history.  My clients don't pay me extra to use the latest version of Autocad or waste hours trying to "fix" or "work around" AutoDesk caused problems.  They simply want a set of drawings that can work in the field.  Why can't I bind a PDF or TIFF?  Why is there a delay in switching between layout tabs?  ETC.!  And there are SO MANY MORE!!!

Do the developers have a clue? 

From what I hear SP2 has done little to help the issues with R2015.

Does anyone see any reason to continue on subscription? 

The way yearly versions (big part of the problem) are causing procustion issues that are inexcusable, why not stay with R2014, 13, 12 - whichever one prefers?

I have reached my limit on pouring $500 US down the AutoDesk rat hole every December.  This year I will not renew.  Since R7, yes, I have seen improvements, but each version is less "worth it" than the last.  These days, the problems, slow-ups, crashes, stupid interface changes, etc. are out of control.  While R2014 isn't perfect, it sure is better than wasting my time looking for fixes and work arounds for AutoDesk’s screw-ups.

Perhaps if enough of us stop our subscription - MAYBE - someone? in AutoDesk will wake up?  (Not that I count on that!)

Rant off.

[stevev0983]

I completely agree with you regarding the value of what Autodesk now gives you, as they basically change little that is useful each year, yet continue to charge you. That being said, you should contact whoever you purchased it from and find out what your options will be if you let the subscription lapse. Since they will be getting rid of the upgrade program on 2/1/2015, you have to seriously look at which makes more financial sense. For example, you can continue to pay $500.00 per year and just stick it in a closet if it has known problems or you see no benefit. Seems like a waste of money, right? But not necessarily if you consider that once you let your subscription lapse, you will be forced to pay full retail for any future versions. So next time they change the .dwg format and you realize that it is beneficial to have that version, it may well cost you over $4K for a new license as opposed to keeping up your old subscription. I'm going through this now because I let my subscription lapse when you had upgrade options for $1999.00 (which is now $2999.00). Now that the upgrade is going away, they are basically forcing you into a subscription unless you're willing to keep paying $4K every time they change the .dwg format, which seems to be about every 3 years. So if you ever want a future version, you're probably best off keeping up the subscription. I feel your pain.

By the way, if my interpretation of this is incorrect, I would welcome someone from Autodesk to clarify it.

[pendean]

In addition to the good advise by others... Perpetual Autodesk licneses are on the way out supposedly:
http://rakeshrao.typepad.com/work_smarter_geotools/2014/09/perpetual-autocad-licenses-to-end.html

Nothing wrong with R2015-SP1 here, works absolutely fine on my 3-year old Win7 PC. I won't install SP2 as I see no benefits at the moment.

[RAFUSE]

stevev0983

Good points. 

One of the other reasons I am seriously looking at droping subscription is how much longer will I need CAD?  I have been in the engineering business nearly 50 years and using Autodad over 40 years.  Not many years to go.

Compared to my clients I am always at least two versions ahead of them, so .dwg format is not really an issue.  Presently I save everything to R2010 to keep them "happy"!

I wonder, once I am "finished" with ACAD, can I sell or give it away?  Or does AutoDesk prevent that?

BTW, I don't use any of the "verticals".  AutoDesk has what they call an "electrical" package, but I never say the need.  I have my own block library.

R

[RAFUSE]

pendean,

Thanks.

Isn't that just cute! Pay every year or we lock your work! Wonderful. Time to move MY R2014 to a machine that is off the web.

No incentive to improve or fix the many bugs - create bugs to keep us locked in. Yeah, after being in the business this long you can be sure I'm cynical.

[dgorsman]

Please review what "Perpetual license" and "Subscription" is before continuing.  To coin a phrase "I do not think that word means what you think it means...".

[stevev0983]

From what I understand from resellers whom I have spoken with, the perpetual license is kind of a joke anyway if you buy the subscription. It was explained to me that using AutoCAD on a subscription is similar to trading in a used car. The result of this being that, once you install and activate a new version, you have forfeited (or "traded in") your ability to ever activate an older version. So lets say you are on subscription and you get the newest 2015 version and you install and activate it. Then you realize that you don't like it and you want to go back to 2013 or 2014 (which, by the way, you paid for on subscription), you better hope it is still on your computer because you can no longer install and activate the older version. And if you ever want to update to a new computer, you most likely will only be able to install and activate the latest version that you used (in the example above, that would be 2015) because you "traded in" your older version once you activated the new one. They claim it is in the EULA. I don't doubt that it is probably in the EULA, but only a company as arrogant as Autodesk would enforce it. If I paid up to 2015, but want to build a new computer and go back and use 2012, why should they care?

[RAFUSE]

It's ALL about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!

[nestly2]

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stevev0983 wrote:

....once you install and activate a new version, you have forfeited (or "traded in") your ability to ever activate an older version. So lets say you are on subscription and you get the newest 2015 version and you install and activate it. Then you realize that you don't like it and you want to go back to 2013 or 2014 (which, by the way, you paid for on subscription), you better hope it is still on your computer because you can no longer install and activate the older version.

---

I think you're confusing "Upgrade" and "Subscription" With an upgrade, after 90 days, the previous version is not to be used, however Subscription to a perpetual license explictly grants the Subscription holder liicense to install and use the current current version, as well as the previous 3 versions as long as the Subscription is maintained. 

[stevev0983]

The way it was explained to me by a licensed reseller is as I described it. I was told that the subscription (not the upgrade) is what she described as a "trade-in". And even if it was the upgrade that was a "trade-in", what difference should it make? Either way, you paid for the next version. I upgrade from Rhino 4 to Rhino 5 (for a whopping $300.00) and I can still use or install either version whenever I want.

[nestly2]

None-the-less, that's not how a traditional Subscription works. As a subscription holder, you have license to use the 4 most recent versions.... even if you never had license for those previous versions.

[RAFUSE]

That would make sense as I have 20112, 2013, and 1014 loaded.

[stevev0983]

So I just finished a long conversation with a very experienced and patient reseller and he clarified this situation.

1) If you are currently on a subscription, you can install up to 3 prior versions. Anything farther back than that and you will most likely need to contact Autodesk, but it should not be a problem.

2) If you are on a subscription and you let the subscription lapse, the only version you can ever install again is the latest one you activated. So if you had a subscription from 2010 through 2013 and then let your subscription lapse, the only one you can re-install is 2013. The other versions (which you paid for on subscription) will come up as invalid serial numbers.

3) If you had a subscription, let it lapse, and now want to do an upgrade, you best hurry before Feb 1, 2015. In my situation, this would allow me to go from Revit Architecture Suite (what I had on subscription until 2013 and then I let it lapse) to something called Building Design Suite Premium, which has a bunch of stuff I will not use. This scenario will cost a lot more than if I had kept my original subscription (stupid me), but it gets me back into a subscription and my older versions will still work. After Feb. 1, 2015, my only option would be to purchase an entire new suite at full retail because upgrades will be gone.

So to get back to the original question from the original post, you probably should either keep up your subscription or be happy with the version you have until you decide to call it quits.

Hopefully this clears up anything I may have previously incorrectly described.

[nestly2]

Sounds about right, but I take exception with part of #2.  You've only "paid" for one license.  Being able to install/use the other 3 are benefits of being on Subscription. The only way you would have "paid for" all 4 is if you had paid $16K  ($4K for each license)   Instead you payed full price for one license one time, and after that initial expence it costs $500 per year to have access to the next release version as well as the 3 most recent previous versions.  When you go OFF subscription, you lose the benefit of using the previous versions....but you retain the one license you actually paid for.  By default, the license will be for the most recent version you activated, but as noted, you can request to have it rolled back to a different version.

[stevev0983]

Technically you are correct, but I wonder how many people actually know this. Maybe I'm naive, but I would never have guessed that my previous versions (including the original one that I did actually pay full retail for) would have invalid serial numbers once I let my subscription lapse. As I said, I learned my lesson the hard way and it's going to cost me over $2K more to upgrade now than if I had kept the subscription. Live and learn I guess.

[RAFUSE]

BOHICA