Solid Modeling enhancements

[DonScribner]

Does anybody know of a third party delevoped suite of modeling lisps or other program, that enhances solid modeling?  Specifically extruding to surface, drilling, notching, mitering and the like.  I am NOT looking for paramatric software (Inventor, SolidWorks, etc).  I work with SW and have extensive training in Inventor. I have several years of experience with Mexchanical Desktop and 5 years of ProSteel. I am well aware of the arguments for parametrics.  In my line of work, speed and flexibility are far more improtant than designing relations into a model that will never be used again. Trust me, paramatics is a detiment in my line of work.  I am looking for something with some of the modeling features of ProSteel but not all the programmed connections for standard shapes. Just the modeling functionality. If I seem like I have an attitude, I do.  I used to model million dollar projects (with ProSteel) in the time that it takes to do one that is 1/20 the size using SolidWorks. Inventor would give similar results. My models are one-ups and will NEVER be reused. SW and Inventor are fine for our standard products but not the highly custom ones.

[dgorsman]

As you note is *is* possible, at least to a degree, but the effort required is enough that you only see it for very specific tasks like structural work (ProSteel), piping design (CADWorx Plant, AutoPLANT, AutoCAD Plant3D), or building design (Autocad Architectural, AutoCAD MEP) which have very well defined objects to model and manipulate.  More generic modeling requires developing a set of ground rules which are already found in - you guessed it - Inventor and other parametric software.

I suspect to get what you are looking for will require consulting with a developer to handle your specific requirements.

[DonScribner]

I don't disagree but I was hoping that somebody had a suite out there to help out modeling for framing without the parametrics.  How hard could it be to get a sold to slice on a surface that you select?  There was a program, Power 3D I think, that did much of the solids manipulation that AutoDesk has integrated now.  They probably bought the code or something. I am still hoping for something like that.  Again, I am well aware of the benetfits of parametrics but in this case, they are a severe detriment to productivity. 

[JDMather]

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@DonScribner wrote:

....My models are one-ups and will NEVER be reused. SW and Inventor are fine for our standard products but not the highly custom ones. 

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Can you post one of these "highly custom" designs?

My opinion is that Inventor or SolidWorks are great for "highly custom" projects that will never be reused.

[braudpat]

Hello

+1 with JDMather >>> My opinion is that Inventor or SolidWorks are great for "highly custom" projects that will never be reused. <<<

<Humour ON>

And if Inventor or SolidWorks are not enough you can switch to Catia !? ... But the price is "a little bit" higher !!

<Humour OFF>

[DonScribner]

After 28 years of AutoCAD and 18 years of solid modeling using 5 different packages, I'll have to disagree.  If our product was one that you had the time to massage for months to get every plane, every extrusion, every feature exactly right . . . maybe.  But I have three weeks to produce models and drawings for 300 parts, no 2 the same, no patterns and no time for messing around.  With Prosteel and AutoCAD, we would have a new person doing $100,000 projects in a couple of months.  With SW, the learning curve is about 3 years.  My opinion is not based on ignorance, but experience.

[DonScribner]

There is no way to uupload something that big.

[dgorsman]

A couple of screen shots or renders should be sufficient.

[braudpat]

Hello from France

In France "big" corporations are using ACAD for "small/medium" 3D work ...

And most often SW / Inventor for "more serious" 3D work ! ... And if necessary Catia for HighEnd 3D Models !

---> Maybe in North America, it's different !?

I know that somebody with good and long experience in 3D with ACAD, can design some nice/big 3D Models !

For example in France one of the best 3D ACAD french user (named "Titi95") that I know does this :

http://cadxp.com/topic/39702-wip-street-car/

You can look on the site : http://grabcad.com/

and find many beautiful 3D Model build with ACAD and others 3D CAD Software ...

I am not a 3D specialist because my job is 80% in 2D & 20% in 3D BUT I am using CAD Software

and especially ACAD since R1.4/2.0 in 1984/1985 ...

[DonScribner]

 This should have gone with the above.

The attached file took 22 minutes to open. It is 800 feet long by 32 feet wide, ish, depending on the location. But as we found out in MIB, size doesn't matter. I did this one in SW.  There are about 3200 components, no 2 alike. No patterns, no mirrors.  All ribs are arched  at different radii.  The light blue panels are lofted bends.  The cross members (purlins) are mated planes defined by a wireframe and sketches to approximate their positions beacause a plane is determined by 3 points and there is no way to absolutely asign 3 points on 2 archs of different lengths, radii, location and convergent or divergent (in plan) paths. There are approximately 9600 planes contolling the parts.  There are 1100 pages of drawings. I did this in SW becasue I could break it into subassemblies that were run by custom properties and be resused.  My Inventor exerience is limited but it would work the same way. The thing is that the interaction between parts (In-context modeling) was kept to a minimum. IN most of what I do, this is not the case.  A part must adopt the geometry (split, extrude to, copied sketch, hole location, etc) from a dozen other parts. Again, no 2 the same so no patterning or mirroring.  Can it be done?  Yes. But three-fold the time. Parametric software is perfect for something that goes into a box, has a model number, a life cycle, that sort of thing. I've worked with software that does this well, and I've worked (am working with) SolidWorks. 

[DonScribner]

It is an incredible model, for sure. No argument there. How long did it take?  Did it have to get out in two weeks?  Are the parts model in-context or are they designed decretely and assembled?  How practical is it? (will it work or is it pretty).   

[dgorsman]

Thanks - that does explain things better.  Is this typical of your production work, or is it a grab bag of whatever comes your way?  ie. next month its a lawnmower, month after that its a conveyor line, then a XMax tree wrapper, and so on.

[JDMather]

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@DonScribner wrote:

There is no way to uupload something that big.

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A pretty picture would suffice.

In any case, it doesn't really matter, as I know from experience I would never be able to convince you.

I just don't want others to be afraid of Inventor or SolidWorks. 

The parametrics can be completely ignored - or - if used correctly, the software takes care of this automatically.

In my experience, only about 10% of Inventor or SolidWorks users know how to use the software.

From your project description - that is probably not the worklfow I would follow.

[DonScribner]

As well I know from experience that you would probably insist that Inventor is the perfect solution for about two years of struggling to implement and change my company mindset before realizing the limitations that it presented.  I've been through this with many newcomers.  You're right, I can't be convinced. However, this is for my particular nitch only.  Parametrics (Inventor, SW, Revit, Catia) is incredible in most industries. Even within my company, we are using it for our more standard units. It functions fairly well. And you are correct if you think that most manufacturing could benefit. This isn't my first rodeo. I was the Mechanical Desktop guru at one company and it soared with it. I had a model that could flex a hundred assemblies, update drawings, modify installaion packages and schedule shipping.  They eventually moved to Inventor when it was released.  I was also a near expert in ProSteel, highly trained in Inventor and currently very skilled in SolidWorks, all the while maintaining excellent skills in AutoCAD solid modeling.  With that wide range of experience, for what I do (much of the time)  ProSteel is the best fit. So the question remains, is there a way to purchase a package of utilities, programs, lisps, etc that could give me some of that functionality within AutoCAD? 

[braudpat]

Hello from France

Don, I agree with your speach ...

I don't think that this kind of 3D Tools/Applications for AutoCAD 201X exist !?

On the Autodesk side : mainly because Autodesk want to push the Inventor Sales ...

Back to "Titi95" the 3D mono bac street car has been designed "for its pleasure"

only from Photos (not from "Blue Prints")... So he has estimated almost dimensions ... 

A few videos from "Titi95" :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyI0MF4IA6Y&list=UUB0cZnOzoWcktcMCDtpnkTA

The technical "vapor heat" room is the real JOB of Titi95 ...

Titi95 create all 3D Models with ACAD 2013/2014/2015 and NOT with ACAD MEP / REVIT MEP !

Some renderings (but NOT the mono bac street car) are done with Lumion because it is very fast ...

[dgorsman]

The only way to get a program to do exactly what you want is to hire somebody to make it for you.  If you think that ProSteel is similar to your needs then it should be possible to get most of your needs covered by a developer.  It won't be cheap, and won't be easy if it only has to follow a few generic rules.  As I noted earlier, ProSteel has a development advantage because it is limited in scope with very well defined rules and data.

[kasperwuyts]

The assembly in your pictures looks like the kind of thing one would make in the visual programming plugins for Revit (Dynamo) or Rhino (Grasshopper), but Ive always been skeptical of those things, seeming more like a pretty visualisation tool for architects; rather than actually being part of the design-to-manufacturing-process. If all the hard work on irregular panel systems is still is more practical using Autocad from start to finish; one starts really questioning the benefit of those modern design tools.