Extremely Slow Performance W/ My Really Large 3D Drawings

[Anonymous]

My IT guy at my office just built what we thought to the king of beasts of all AutoCAD workstations and we upgraded to ACAD2015.

[Western Digital 3 TB SATA III 7200 RPM 64 MB Cache Bulk, ASUS LGA2011 Intel C602 DDR3 1600 SATA III Motherboard Z9PE-D8 WS, Intel Core i7-3960X Extreme Edition Hexa-Core Processor 3.3 GHz 15 MB Cache LGA 2011, NVIDIA Quadro K4000 3GB GDDR5, Corsair Vengeance 64GB (8x8GB) DDR3 1600 MHz (PC3 12800)]

I work heavily in 3D and my files range up to 130mb. I xref my detailed 3D objects sometimes 15000 times or more within a drawing. Simple tasks of switching visual styles or from paper to model space take a pretty **** long time. The peformance here is even worse than on my other workstation with ACAD2011 and only 8gb of ram.

Would anybody have an idea on how I might be able to increase the performance of this machine? Maybe I have been structuring my files wrong or just that my 3D drawings I reference are too detailed. I have completely purged and turned off as many non essential settings I could and still I am having huge problems.

Thanks,

DB

[detroit808]

I struggle with poor performance as well. I've spent a long hard week trying to assess the problems with this software. From what i've discovered, it doesn't make ANY use of the GPU hardware in any configuration and i've twisted systems and software configurations inside and out. I'm not generating 3D files larger than 30MB.

I've tested various GPU hardware ranging from the lower end to the upper most high end of hardware including, Intel HD4600, AMD Radeon 7950, Nvidia GTX 780 and x 2 in SLI, Nvidia Quadro K6000. I've used Intel i7-4770K and Xeon W3690 CPU's. The performance of AutoCAD 3D with all the hardware had no noticeable difference in performance. 

I was monitoring GPU loads, GPU memory bus loads, GPU memory, system memory and system CPU loads. Turns out AutoCAD uses very little GPU memory and CPU system Memory. However, on all systems, one core of the CPU is pegged at 100% while the GPU load is barely tapping 5% while performing any task such as Orbiting, Panning, Zooming, Zoom Extents, inside Copy, Mirror, Rotate commands and selecting objects. 

Increasing the Adaptive Degradation threshold to 60FPS can help ONLY when navigating the model with Orbit and Pan whilst NOT in a command. When in command, Adaptive Degradation does not intervene and thus the slow down severely impact the software, to me it's unusable. If Adaptive Degradation is switched off it is clear to see that AutoCAD is purely CPU bound and doesn't use the GPU. For software working purely on Graphics/3D, not using dedicated GPU hardware is beyond the realms of belief. In this current situation a violation of truth and decency exists whilst Autodesk and their users continue to encourage the purchase of their business partners GPU hardware for this software.

[nrz13]

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gchcad wrote:
Would anybody have an idea on how I might be able to increase the performance of this machine?

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Unfortunately, the only way I think you're going to be able to improve your performance to an acceptable level is to use AutoCAD 2014 instead.  Even after two service packs, AutoCAD 2015 is not truly ready to be deployed for heavy use.

Your save time for those large models could be improved by switching to an SSD instead of the relatively slow 3TB HDD you currently have.  Also, for almost all tasks AutoCAD only takes advantage of one core; AutoCAD could care less about the other 5 cores you have.  The best thing for AutoCAD is high clock speed (GHz).

[braudpat]

Hello from France

Welcome to the Autodesk/AutoCAD Forums ! 

Please look at this Thread :

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/autocad-2013-2014-2015/help-me-decide-on-a-cpu/td-p/5299911

The main target : the fastest CPU (Quad-Core is quite enough) so the Intel Core i7 4790K overcloked (4.4-4.6 Ghz) is the TODAY right choice ... With the NVidia GTX 780 TI ...

An other French very-high level 3D user "Titi95" has for 3D ACAD Modeling & other softwares :

Software : Autocad - Lumion Pro - Keyshot - Photoshop - Win7pro - 64bit
Hardware at Job : Intel I7 3970X 4.6ghz + Swiftech H220 - RAM 32Go - SSD 840pro 256Go + DD 2To - GTX Titan 3xFans 980mhz - HAFG 932 - 2x24" Dell - Perfomance MX - Spacenavigator
Hardware at Home : Intel I7 3770K 4.4ghz - RAM 16Go - SSD 840pro 256Go + DD 2To - GTX 680 4Go 1137mhz - 1x27" - M510
Please note that the "Titi95" Hardware is about one year old ...

A sample from "Titi95" : https://grabcad.com/library/sports-car-with-details-bac-mono-1

Some other happy 3D French Users have the same hardware ...

I agree completely with THIS Hardware for ACAD, Revit, Inventor, etc and even for SolidWorks !!!

And I am Workstation Engineer certified ...

Of course for large 2D/3D drawings, you have to remain with versions 2014 (or 2013) because the 2015 is not enough reliable even with SP 2 !?

[detroit808]

Bonjour monsieur. 

Yes, Titi95 does some beautiful work but he needs to come here and explain how AutoCAD makes use of that GPU hardware (GTX Titan). I suspect that the other software he uses, Lumion takes advantage of the Titan, but nothing in AutoCAD will not even the material rendering out from AutoCAD. It's all CPU from what I see. Maybe he has some magic tricks?

[braudpat]

Hello

As I said "Titi95" has bought its graphic card a few times ago ... Today he would buy a GTX 780 TI !

Then often he is using Lumion because it is very fast for renderings (compare to ACAD) ...

[JDMather]

What field are you in? Civil? Architectural? Mechanical?

Perhaps AutoCAD is not the appropriate software for efficient work in your field.

[braudpat]

Hello

+1 with JDMather

For very large complex 3D Mechanical Design , the right choice could be : Inventor, SolidWorks, Catia, etc

For 3D Architectural Design: Revit, AllPlan, etc

[pendean]

[Western Digital 3 TB SATA III 7200 RPM: slow, SSD is best for speed.
Intel Core i7-3960X Extreme Edition Hexa-Core Processor 3.3 GHzL only one core is used by AutoCAD, total waste of money.
NVIDIA Quadro K4000 3GB GDDR5: overkill for plain jane AutoCAD's 3D.
Corsair Vengeance 64GB (8x8GB): slight overkill but good.

R2015 has an all new graphics engine that current hardware and drivers don;t know what to do with at all. hardware manufacturers (or Autodesk) will probably need another version or two to figure it all out.

As noted by others, if you are just using plain jane AutoCAD for "complex 3D" it is most likely the wrong tool for the task if you are in manufacturing, wdget design, or AEC industries.

[detroit808]

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@pendean wrote:
[Western Digital 3 TB SATA III 7200 RPM: slow, SSD is best for speed.
Intel Core i7-3960X Extreme Edition Hexa-Core Processor 3.3 GHzL only one core is used by AutoCAD, total waste of money.
NVIDIA Quadro K4000 3GB GDDR5: overkill for plain jane AutoCAD's 3D.
Corsair Vengeance 64GB (8x8GB): slight overkill but good.

R2015 has an all new graphics engine that current hardware and drivers don;t know what to do with at all. hardware manufacturers (or Autodesk) will probably need another version or two to figure it all out.

As noted by others, if you are just using plain jane AutoCAD for "complex 3D" it is most likely the wrong tool for the task if you are in manufacturing, wdget design, or AEC industries.

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Lets be clear, it is Autodesk and their software that doesn't know what to do with the hardware, not the other way around. It is Autodesk that need to figure out how to get it working, not the hardware manufacturers. The hardware manufacturers have been successfully making hardware based on the OpenGL and DirectX API's for many years, it is up to the software developers to exploit the hardware through their code. Redway3D can do it successfully, Computer game developers have been exploiting the GPU hardware for a long time, else they couldn't exist.  Autodesk need to get their act together and rather pronto. Instead of wasting theirs and our time turning the interface dark and adding pretty glowing selection highlights, they ought to be moving solar systems in order to get the GPU hardware acceleration optimised. It's typical of these large corporations after some success they sit back eat too much get fat and do nothing and expect their clients to lap it up.  

[pendean]

Correct: AutoCAD is not designed for any of the fancied-up spec in the OP's hardware. Kind of like putting a pretty dress on a pig.... .

For 'complex 3D' models you need to be using software (from Autodesk or others) designed for power hardware. Plain-jane AutoCAD ain't it brother. Don't blame the vendor for you buying the wrong product completely.

[braudpat]

Hello from France

+1 with everybody

My job is mainly 2D (80%) but sometimes on very large/huge GIS/Mapping DWGs ... And of course my favorite AutoCAD is ACAD MAP ...

With each NEW version, ACAD MAP is less faster !

The fastest version were ACAD MAP 2010/2011/2012 (64 bits of course) ... And since the 2013, each version is slower and slower ... No comment about the 2015, it is not necessary !

So when I have to load HUGE DWGs (Category: 100-300 Mb), I try (if possible) to use old ACAD MAP 2010 / 2011 / 2012 (often) ...

For me, it's UNACCEPTABLE that AutoCAD can't use the REAL power of modern graphic card (DirectX or OpenGL)

... And I don't speak about 3D ...

The other "death" argument (n the GIS/Mapping world) is that we are very far from X=Zero & Y=Zero !

It's catastrophic for graphic card and theirs drivers ...

Sniff, Sniff, go on with ACAD / MAP 201X ...

[dgorsman]

Optimization is for work and model practices as well as hardware.  For example, loading up 15000 copies of a complex model seems redundant, as they all won't affect the current work at the same time.

Do they *really* need to be loaded, everywhere, all the time, every time?  Or is it just for review purposes which would be better served in Navisworks?

Do they *really* need all that detail in every single copy, or is it like all the moving pieces in the Transformers movies (redundant outside of a high-def stop frame analysis)?

Do you *really* need to work in rendered views?  Yes, they are provided in AutoCAD but are best suited for stills/mini-renders rather than as a working environment.  If you want a fully shaded 3D work environment you need a more advanced product like Inventor, Revit, or PDMS, depending on your work.  You are bumping up against the upper limits of what AutoCAD is capable of, and new hardware isn't going to change that.

For reference, I work with AutoCAD on 3D projects with easily 100+ GB of models, without issues (albiet in earlier versions of AutoCAD).  I only detail to the level that is necessary.  I find and use exploits of duplication with blocks and XREFs.  I keep the individual models lean, and only XREF in what is necessary to do the design work.  Detailed models provided by vendors using Inventor or other detailed software are greatly simplified down to only the necessities (typically, connection locations and envelope).  Overall reviews and pretty pictures are handled through Navisworks.

[Anonymous]

Thanks everyone for the great advice. I just may have to relearn revit or inventor and see what goes on there. It's just been 9 years since I have toyed around with those programs. I'm just so much more efficient in AutoCAD than any other program. 

I forgot to mention that I have 2 hard drives. The 2TB SATA for bulk storage and then I have the 500GB SSD which I have windows and everything else installed on.

Here is a quick background of my knowledge of AutoCAD and what I use it for. I'm 27 now and have been using AutoCAD since I was a sophomore in highschool. Started out on drafting tables and AutoCAD 2000. I took classes then and a couple more in college but most of what I know about AutoCAD is self taught. I now work in the hydroponics industry designing indoor/outdoor irrigation systems for growers. A client will come to me with either a lot or warehouse wanting to outfit it with the rooms necessary to meet their production needs. I will work with them drawing up a few versions of their floorplan and then once we agree on the spatial design of it all I will go in, add my 3D objects, and start routing the plumbing and drain lines. I also include some rudimentary electrical plans to show what products to put on what outlets and breakers in the sub panel. I work mainly in wireframe but when I need to I will change the visual styles to make sure everything is lining up where it's supposed to and then when I need to plot I'll switch the viewport in paperspace. 

Just because of me being me I tend to put a bit to much detail in my models. Keeping models simple is difficult for me sometimes. I've attached an example of one of my drawings so you can see a little of what I do.

Thanks again everyone. 

[dgorsman]

Looks like you have a number of options to work with - your work is in that grey area incorporating elements of both mechanical and architectural/structural.  I think both Revit or Inventor could suit you well.  If you want to stay more on the AutoCAD path which may be more to your clients expected deliverables, there's a number of low- to mid-cost third-party programs for doing the piping which would also be suitable for conduit with a little manipulation.  There's certainly a *lot* of room for blocks and other shortcuts to keep the file size down.

You will want to dial back on the detail level, especially with those fans.  If they aren't the primary focus of the design, it won't matter if they're a little more "stupid" than the rest.  And if you aren't doing so already have a look at using Navisworks to ensure everything is lining up.  You can bring *everything* together (and I do mean everything) with not much memory footprint, in very good real-time rendered views plus create some good quality rendered images without much work or training.

[braudpat]

Hello from France

+1 with Dgorsman

I have seen people managing large 2D/3D project with standard ACAD 201X 64 bits (or sometimes vertical ACAD : ACAD MEP) ... 

The key for the success is : Organization & Discipline with ALL DWGs / XREFs / etc

Multiple XREFs VERY WELL organized also : 2D XREFs / 3D XREFs / etc

And a "terrific" Layer Organization with many Layer filters ...

And beautiful 2D/3D Blocks ... very well optimized (sometimes Multi-Layers)

In these conditions with all draftmen WELL trained, you can managed large projects with ACAD

With very fast PCs which means : either fast Core i7 (sometimes overclocked) or fast Xeons (expensive) - 32 Gb Ram - etc ...

So Good Luck !

[Anonymous]

The best options I have found is not in the obvious.!

If you go with the SSD it will load a little faster so thats a plus....

If you can beef up your memory to a 32GB you will see a huge difference!!

You need a good processor too... 3.7GHz or higher...

Then your typical stuff with a graphics card helps of course.

I finally changed all my design machines to the Alienware. The gaming machines work soo much better than the usual. But the most important is your memory and processor.

I am not an IT guru by any means but I have been doing this stuff for a long time and it took some thinking outside the box and I have found more success using these upgrades.

GOOD LUCK..

[braudpat]

Hello from France

Welcome to the Autodesk/AutoCAD Forums !

If you have to manage large 3D documents with ACAD, ACAD MEP, REVIT, REVIT MEP, Inventor, Navisworks, SW, etc ... You must have :

- A single very fast processor (4 Cores/8 Threads is quite ENOUGH)

So the best solution since summer 2014 is the famous Core i7 4790K (4.0-4.4 Ghz - 8 Mb cache)

With a good cabinet AND reliable/stable power supply AND a good ventirad like the Noctua 12S (or equivalent)

then the Core i7 can be overclocked (without any problem) to 4.4-4.5 ghz ...

- 32 Gb DDR3 1866 Mhz reliable

- Fast SSD

- NVidia GTX 970 (cheaper) / 980 (more expensive but no really faster) with 4 Gb Ram

This is in fact a GAMER PC ! but it is the right choice !!!

Good Luck, Regards, Patrice (I am not an Autodesk Advisor)

[detroit808]

I'm not convinced the memory amounts some guys suggest is neccesary. Just look at task monitor's memory section with the largest file open in AutoCAD, it barely uses more than 2GB!

The poor performance is at Autodesks end. Same files in BricsCad which uses Red3D engine is silky smooth on the same files that bring AutoCAD to it's knees.

[Anonymous]

Exactly! My experience is the same! Testing AutoCAD 2016, Rhino 5 and latest BricsCAD 15 AutoCAD is the slowest with the same files (created in AutoCAD)! This is long standing truth that AutoCAD code is old and unoptimized! It is funny people at Autodesk always blame the hardware!