XREF moving without user action

[jhunt107]

Please understand, I feel crazy for even posting this but I did see it happen.

1. We use multiple XREFs with a common origin (0,0,0 and 0 degrees) to collaborate between people.
2. One of several XREF drawings in the MAIN drawing was far out of alignment from the origin.
        The user doesn't know how this happened.
        The overall XREF was approximately centered in the building but.....
        Hundreds of feet wrong in X Y Z
        Rotation = 90 degrees
   
   
3. I helped user reset the position to 0,0,0 and rotation to 0 degrees using the Properties Palette.
4. No one touched the computer at the desk, I talked with the user and a second user who had an issue with the same XREF in a different MAIN dwg.
5. Within 1 minute we all saw that very same XREF move several feet to the left.
6. I looked at the XREF properties to confirm that the X position had changed several feet away from 0.

Like I said it sounds crazy so I'm just looking for a brainstorm of wild ideas of how this could happen.

Autodesk Application Management/Support

Josh 

[pendean]

If it stopped working after 25-years, it is more likely you skipped (or added) a workflow step that needs to be reviewed in more detail, like you stated "someone" at your end is moving the XREFs or their basepoints (in their external DWG locations or in the top file) and was just not paying attention "months later" when you discover it.

Shouldn't happen? You bet, it does not here for any of us in our office. But accidents and not paying attention is a human flaw we all suffer from. Dig way deeper than you have stated here with your team, someone somewhere may be honest enough to acknowledge it if it was just not a sheer accident.

[DaveCollins4938]

That's why I'm searching though posts. To try to figure out why it is happening so that I can prevent it from happening. How does the basepoint change without user interaction? I'm willing to hear what mistake I am making, but it's hard to understand why something has worked for so long and now it's a problem. I've spent a lot of time trying to find the variable, but I can't see it.

[DaveCollins4938]

I agree with you. The first time it happened I was 100% convinced either I or my 2 colleges made a bad mistake. I've spent a lot of time thinking about it. It even happened once while I was working on a set (by myself). You could say that makes me the culprit. It was still baffling to see.

[RobDraw]

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@DaveCollins4938 wrote:

That's why I'm searching though posts. To try to figure out why it is happening so that I can prevent it from happening. How does the basepoint change without user interaction? 

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It doesn't change on it's own unless you have something running that edits files without someone opening them. In my experience, this happens when the XREF file (from a third party) is replaced without checking the basepoint. 

[DaveCollins4938]

That's has happened to me with consultant's files, but these are my files. I'm very careful to insert at 0,0. I haven't moved my entire drawing in the base file. 

I've had my eyes opened since it first happened a few months ago. It's happened twice since then. I still can't figure it out. If I do, I'll post.

[michaelwGEM8U]

Thanks Dave Collins. Same here. (aka I'm not a dumb amateur either) All our elevation files the base plans will constantly move daily frm the 0,0 and it drives me crazy because the manager here insists on have enlarged room plans and rcps on the same elevation sheet. Multiplying the problem everytime a file is opened the xrefs need to be returned to 0,0 even when working independently or coworker doing independent work. We do exchange background info and modify from the local architect during survey and re-measures but that's it. They have recent Autocad too, so the software should be designed with multiple co's collaborating, was the case since 1990s, AEC community.
Autocad also suffering from blue spinning circles (system timeout with Windows 8 and 10) during random trims, rotates, drawing, another problem Im troubleshooting/living with. Its like everything is falling apart. In another post string, Autodesk moderator tried to blame Windows of course, but its like, no, no other programs I use have this issue. They're so busy trying to make you look dumb and execs financing the acquisition of other companies. Might be a sign to change career. Hard enough as it is.

[michaelwGEM8U]

INCORRECT. I am the primary project person. It moves by itself. Multiple files. When no one else is working on it at 3am. Stop the denial and trying to overwrite the situation.

[RobDraw]

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@michaelwGEM8U wrote:
It moves by itself.

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That's impossible.

[pendean]

@michaelwGEM8U Nope, nothing ever moves on its own in AutocAD. Nothing. Zip. Nada.

Show us a repeatable example with your files right now where anyone here can place an XREF is spotA, close the files, open the top file again and it is suddenly at spotB all by itself.

What are you waiting for? Anecdotal observations are not proof, it just means you missed the trigger.

Come on: what are you waiting for?

[DaveCollins4938]

You can't accept the possibility that there is some error other than user error? Not some flawed piece of code? Not some software interaction? Not some update that went wrong? Not a setting that was changed? Obviously something is affecting the files. I'd love to know what it is. Maybe it's me, but I don't think so. It's hard to explain from where I sit. Nothing has changed in my process. Nothing! Anyway, I do appreciate the conversation. 

[RobDraw]

Nope, XREFs do not move on their own. Just because you don't see how it is happening doesn't mean that some sort of AutoCAD flaw. This kind of thing would not affect just XREFs. Blaming the software is just an excuse to stop trying to find the real issue. 

[DaveCollins4938]

I don't think the xref has moved. In my case someone would have to open the sheet, change to model space and them move xref in question. That's very unlikely. I think my model space drawing origin point (0,0) has moved relative to the drawing. It explains why the viewport is "looking" at the wrong spot in model space. Here is the best example of what I'm talking about. I actually wrote these steps down when it happened.

Setup: AP*.dwg has drawing in model space. TB*.dwg is titleblock in paper space. Both xref'd to A101*.dwg (AP*.dwg xref'd to model space + TB*.dwg xref'd to paper space)

1. Opened A101*.dwg and noticed a drafting error on the AP*.dwg. Kept A101*.dwg open.

2. Opened AP*.dwg, corrected the error, saved the drawing and closed it (this took 10 seconds).

3. Went back to the A101*.dwg and reloaded the xref and the drawing disappeared from the viewport.

4. Double clicked the viewport and zoomed out and found my drawing over to the side.

5. Opened AP*.dwg and through trial and error moved the entire drawing x = 92'-5 1/4" / y = -74' - 4 7/16". Reloaded the xref in the A101*.dwg sheet and it was back perfectly in the VP.

[RobDraw]

First, is the viewport locked?

If yes, something happened while you were editing the XREF file. Without seeing it action, I can't say what.

[laurena]

This is a legit issue. I am at my wit's end with this one. Never in 15 years have I had this problem until starting in 2020. I do all my drafting the same way...it happens to me and it happens to my associates from time to time. It happens on some projects, and thankfully not others. The xrefs have moved in host files even while we have been in the host drawings, refreshing or reloading the xrefs. I can assure you, this is not a user issue....this is an AutoCAD issue and I cannot connect the dots on why it happens. I just want to know who can fix it. It is very frustrating. Please look into this. Time is money, and repeatedly having to move my xrefs back into place as many times as I have been recently is not acceptable.

[laurena]

We have been locking the xrefs on their own layer, and it still happens.

[pendean]

You'll have to prove it by posting DWG files we call can open and close then observe that/those XREFs moving all by themselves. Otherwise, sadly, what you claim is just not a thing that happens without a missed user input or 3rd party add-on influence.

[laurena]

Okay, I will talk to my IT manager about posting files

[RobDraw]

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@laurena wrote:

I can assure you, this is not a user issue....this is an AutoCAD issue and I cannot connect the dots on why it happens. 

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Until you can connect the dots, you cannot say either way if it is an AutoCAD issue and not PEBCAK. It also needs to be repeatable and since it only happens with some XREFs, it would be logical to state that something is happening in the XREF files. It's most likely procedural in some way and not AutoCAD generated.

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@laurena wrote:

I just want to know who can fix it. It is very frustrating. Please look into this. Time is money, and repeatedly having to move my xrefs back into place as many times as I have been recently is not acceptable.

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This is a user help forum, users helping users. The Autodesk employees that come around are moderators and would probably just tell you to open a support ticket for more direct help.

In the mean time, I would focus on your workflow to find out how this is breaking down and what might be causing it. I would suggest starting off by saving a copy of the XREF and then comparing it to the one that is being referenced after it moves. Then track down how the change to that file happened.

[laurena]

I honestly do not believe it is procedural at all. I think it perhaps could be a strange setting or a corruption of some kind of the files involved. With all of the comments on this post, I cannot believe the issue has not been resolved yet. I will open a ticket with AutoCAD and report back if I find anything. I appreciate all the real contributors to forum. I believe most of us are professionals and the snarky comments by some of you folks are not appreciated.

[RobDraw]

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@laurena wrote:

I honestly do not believe it is procedural at all. I think it perhaps could be a strange setting or a corruption of some kind of the files 

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Isn't a setting procedural? For that matter, why can't file corruption be procedural?

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@laurena wrote:

I honestly do not believe it is procedural at all. I think it perhaps could be a strange setting or a corruption of some kind of the files involved. With all of the comments on this post, I cannot believe the issue has not been resolved yet. I will open a ticket with AutoCAD and report back if I find anything. I appreciate all the real contributors to forum. I believe most of us are professionals and the snarky comments by some of you folks are not appreciated.

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@laurena wrote:

With all of the comments on this post, I cannot believe the issue has not been resolved yet.

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If this were a software issue, it would not be resolved here and if it were solved here (by a user) then it would probably be procedural. If you are expecting a "fix" from Autodesk, you are more likely to learn about it in the form of an update.

So again, in the meantime you can do some deep investigation to find out what is changing in the XREF file when it "moves". Without that information, you probably won't find a fix.