AutoCAD 2010/2011/2012

AutoCAD 2010/2011/2012

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Valued Contributor
bill.salling
Posts: 66
Registered: ‎10-07-2008
Message 1 of 7 (803 Views)

2010 - Multi-Threaded? Native 64?

803 Views, 6 Replies
02-27-2009 07:43 AM
Is the 2010 a native 64 program or is it a 32 running on 64?

Does it now run Multi-Threaded?
*Joel
Message 2 of 7 (803 Views)

Re: 2010 - Multi-Threaded? Native 64?

02-27-2009 10:37 AM in reply to: bill.salling
'09 had a native 64-bit version, so I see no reason that '10 would not.



Portions of Acad have been multi-threaded since 2000i, specifically the
display, lisp interpreter and the arx subsystem (meaning that an arx program
could be made multi-threaded independent of Acad). Built-in rendering is
too since '07. Other than that, how many processors do you need to draw
lines and circles?
Valued Contributor
bill.salling
Posts: 66
Registered: ‎10-07-2008
Message 3 of 7 (803 Views)

Re: 2010 - Multi-Threaded? Native 64?

02-27-2009 11:02 AM in reply to: bill.salling
Thanks for info. I knew parts were threaded.
Member
jgerth
Posts: 5
Registered: ‎01-15-2007
Message 4 of 7 (803 Views)

Re: 2010 - Multi-Threaded? Native 64?

03-09-2009 07:51 AM in reply to: bill.salling
I would tend to disagree on your interpretation of multi-theading's utility in CAD. Having used a fully optimized, pervasivley multithreading, & buzzword-enabled OS in the past, I can understand from personal experience just how much AutoCAD and its verticals could benefit from extensive use of pervasive multithreading. If a dual PentiumPro 300 w/ 1Gb RAM can play back 24 concurrent videos without dropping frames, then there's obvioulsy a potential benefit in multithreading interactive display elements.

Given that most of the suggestions for improving speed in A2k9 involve turning off newer features, in particular those related to GUI elements, is seems apparent that a development approach that required independent threads for each palette/window/active dialog would improve precieved speed. Anytime you are waiting more than 0.2 seconds for a dialog to display or respond, you are seeing a program activity that could benefit from pervasive multithreading. The new layer dialog in particular could drastically benefit from such an approach, as could the C3D toolspace and the rather useless 'dynamic update' feature.

Now, if you operate with no dialogs, toolbars or palettes, and strictly drive keyboard style for command input and information display (e.g. textscr), then multithreading will not improve your perception of the program's responsiveness.
*Tony Tanzillo
Message 5 of 7 (803 Views)

Re: 2010 - Multi-Threaded? Native 64?

03-09-2009 10:33 AM in reply to: bill.salling
Please do everyone here a favor, and find some other
venue to pollute with buzzword-ladan nonsense that you
obviuosly have little or no understanding of, and appears
to be primarily designed to impress us.

--
http://www.caddzone.com

AcadXTabs: MDI Document Tabs for AutoCAD 2009
Supporting AutoCAD 2000 through 2009

http://www.acadxtabs.com

Introducing AcadXTabs 2010:
http://www.caddzone.com/acadxtabs/AcadXTabs2010.htm


wrote in message news:6138478@discussion.autodesk.com...
I would tend to disagree on your interpretation of multi-theading's utility
in CAD. Having used a fully optimized, pervasivley multithreading, &
buzzword-enabled OS in the past, I can understand from personal experience
just how much AutoCAD and its verticals could benefit from extensive use of
pervasive multithreading. If a dual PentiumPro 300 w/ 1Gb RAM can play back
24 concurrent videos without dropping frames, then there's obvioulsy a
potential benefit in multithreading interactive display elements. Given that
most of the suggestions for improving speed in A2k9 involve turning off
newer features, in particular those related to GUI elements, is seems
apparent that a development approach that required independent threads for
each palette/window/active dialog would improve precieved speed. Anytime you
are waiting more than 0.2 seconds for a dialog to display or respond, you
are seeing a program activity that could benefit from pervasive
multithreading. The new layer dialog in particular could drastically benefit
from such an approach, as could the C3D toolspace and the rather useless
'dynamic update' feature. Now, if you operate with no dialogs, toolbars or
palettes, and strictly drive keyboard style for command input and
information display (e.g. textscr), then multithreading will not improve
your perception of the program's responsiveness.
Member
jgerth
Posts: 5
Registered: ‎01-15-2007
Message 6 of 7 (803 Views)

Re: 2010 - Multi-Threaded? Native 64?

03-10-2009 05:31 PM in reply to: bill.salling
No offense meant, and none taken. Not having a Phd in theoretical OS design, I'm always interested in learning something.

The OS referenced was BeOS 5, circa 1998 and played the videos on an Intergraph personal workstation - originally purchased with NT 4 on it. Fast SCSI, maxed out RAM, and high-end OpenGL video -- a hot machine for its time. There may have been more than 2 dozen videos playing concurrently -- I just filled the screen leaving enough of the Star Wars trailer visible in each window to see. It's hard to talk about BeOs without all the buzzwords - although the 'fully optimized' remark was gratuitous -- sorry about that. the 'pervasive mutlithreading' though is accurate. It's not possible in BeOS to create an interactive app that only used one thread - the minimum was two.

If you've got a dual processor P-III with a TNT card laying around, load it up with BeOS and see how responsive it feels to you.

0.2 seconds -- bear with me because I'm relying on a 25 or 30 year old memory of a DEC study that explored user's reactions to differing lag times between user action and the screen's response. IIRC the maximum lag before people lost efficiency was the 0.2 second figure. (might have been an IBM research - but half my day back when was spent on a Vt320 running serial to a DEC minicomputer, so I had more DEC literature floating around.) That number seems reasonable, since a half second lag between clicking and the PCs response is noticeable today.

If you believe that creating a pervasively multi threaded interface in dotnet is not possible - I'll defer to your expertise in that arena. Windows since nt has had some multithreading capability (Mtext in Acad for example), but multithreading may be simply too hard to do in Windows operating systems to be widely implemented.

That doesn't mean it would not be beneficial to the user, nor that it can't be done.
*Tony Tanzillo
Message 7 of 7 (803 Views)

Re: 2010 - Multi-Threaded? Native 64?

03-11-2009 03:49 AM in reply to: bill.salling
Sorry, don't have time to read that.

I would suggest you go wiki 'parallel computing', which is
the term casually used to describe multiple threads running
on different processors concurrently (they can be different
cores of a single, multi-core CPU; different physical CPUs;
or different 'Hyperthreads' of a single CPU).

As far as what can benefit from splitting a given amount
of computations between two or more computers that
carry them out concurrently, one doesn't really need a
PHD in anything to understand that. A little common
sense should do.

As I sit here testing the Parallel Extensions for the .NET
framework, I'm watching AutoCAD code I've written over
the years suddenly run 2-3 times faster, and the code has
nothing to do with windows, palettes, or other UI elements.

Of course, that's mainly because on the Core i7 system
that I ran the benchark tests on, Windows sees 8 CPUs
(4 physical cores x 2 hyperthreads).

If AutoCAD were completely rewritten from the ground
up to exploit parallel execution, there's no doubt in my
mind that the result would see major improvements
across-the-board, in every aspect of the program.

So sorry about the body slam, but I think most here
would appreciate the use of little more common sense,
and few less buzzwords.

--
http://www.caddzone.com

AcadXTabs: MDI Document Tabs for AutoCAD 2009
Supporting AutoCAD 2000 through 2009

http://www.acadxtabs.com

Introducing AcadXTabs 2010:
http://www.caddzone.com/acadxtabs/AcadXTabs2010.htm


wrote in message news:6139889@discussion.autodesk.com...
No offense meant, and none taken. Not having a Phd in theoretical OS design,
I'm always interested in learning something. The OS referenced was BeOS 5,
circa 1998 and played the videos on an Intergraph personal workstation -
originally purchased with NT 4 on it. Fast SCSI, maxed out RAM, and high-end
OpenGL video -- a hot machine for its time. There may have been more than 2
dozen videos playing concurrently -- I just filled the screen leaving enough
of the Star Wars trailer visible in each window to see. It's hard to talk
about BeOs without all the buzzwords - although the 'fully optimized' remark
was gratuitous -- sorry about that. the 'pervasive mutlithreading' though is
accurate. It's not possible in BeOS to create an interactive app that only
used one thread - the minimum was two. If you've got a dual processor P-III
with a TNT card laying around, load it up with BeOS and see how responsive
it feels to you. 0.2 seconds -- bear with me because I'm relying on a 25 or
30 year old memory of a DEC study that explored user's reactions to
differing lag times between user action and the screen's response. IIRC the
maximum lag before people lost efficiency was the 0.2 second figure. (might
have been an IBM research - but half my day back when was spent on a Vt320
running serial to a DEC minicomputer, so I had more DEC literature floating
around.) That number seems reasonable, since a half second lag between
clicking and the PCs response is noticeable today. If you believe that
creating a pervasively multi threaded interface in dotnet is not possible -
I'll defer to your expertise in that arena. Windows since nt has had some
multithreading capability (Mtext in Acad for example), but multithreading
may be simply too hard to do in Windows operating systems to be widely
implemented. That doesn't mean it would not be beneficial to the user, nor
that it can't be done.
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