AutoCAD 2007/2008/2009

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*Ian A. White
Message 101 of 109 (156 Views)

Re: Subscription Price

04-23-2006 11:41 PM in reply to: jvanbenschoten
On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 06:21:18 +0000, mwgrutter <> wrote:

>The point was not that Microsoft offers IE for free, but rather that the DWF format for Autodesk products need to work in IE.
>
>To get back on the original subject, we've been on subscription since we upgraded to R14 and have received every release since then. I haven't been able to implement them all because of hardware issues with my department but,
>when I calculate the amount we've spent on subscriptions, we've only spent the amount it would cost for one full price seat of AutoCAD for each user. If we used the 'every third release' upgrade rule, we'd have spent at least twice as much only two upgrades not seven.

But what would have been your bottom line overall? Remember to take
into account all the add-ons and training etc.
*Laurie Comerford
Message 102 of 109 (156 Views)

Re: Subscription Price

04-24-2006 01:17 AM in reply to: jvanbenschoten
Hi Ian,

"But what would have been your bottom line overall? Remember to take
into account all the add-ons and training etc."

Also include the increased productivity which can arise from improvements in
the program.

Like many of the costs in the evaluation this is difficult to measure and
varies enormously between organisations and individuals.

--

Laurie Comerford
CADApps
www.cadapps.com.au
"Ian A. White" wrote in message
news:5151768@discussion.autodesk.com...
On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 06:21:18 +0000, mwgrutter <> wrote:

>The point was not that Microsoft offers IE for free, but rather that the
>DWF format for Autodesk products need to work in IE.
>
>To get back on the original subject, we've been on subscription since we
>upgraded to R14 and have received every release since then. I haven't been
>able to implement them all because of hardware issues with my department
>but,
>when I calculate the amount we've spent on subscriptions, we've only spent
>the amount it would cost for one full price seat of AutoCAD for each user.
>If we used the 'every third release' upgrade rule, we'd have spent at least
>twice as much only two upgrades not seven.

But what would have been your bottom line overall? Remember to take
into account all the add-ons and training etc.
Mentor
mid-awe
Posts: 1,232
Registered: ‎12-08-2004
Message 103 of 109 (156 Views)

Re: Subscription Price

04-24-2006 09:28 AM in reply to: jvanbenschoten
It sounds to me like some people have more Dollars than Sense. To push a new release because of it's great new features that don't work as suggested, or fail to fix flawed features from the previous "amazing", "gotta have it" release is a rip off and if it's not false advertising then it should be. Oh, excuse me, that's right Autodesk failed to mention the issues with cui until the following version or they didn't know because they hadn't begun testing until after 2007 release, and it may be fixed with 2008 but who knows.
That's how software industry works these days Macrosnot does it, therefore, it must be OK. But, Macrosnot is one of the most hated software developers ever. If that is what Autodesk is working toward, then so be it. Message was edited by: MiD-AwE
*Ian A. White
Message 104 of 109 (156 Views)

Re: Subscription Price

04-24-2006 02:29 PM in reply to: jvanbenschoten
On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 08:17:13 +0000, Laurie Comerford
wrote:

>Hi Ian,
>
>"But what would have been your bottom line overall? Remember to take
>into account all the add-ons and training etc."
>
>Also include the increased productivity which can arise from improvements in
>the program.
>
>Like many of the costs in the evaluation this is difficult to measure and
>varies enormously between organisations and individuals.

If everyone experienced the productivity gains claimed (i.e. getting
in more work with the same number of people, or the same amount of
work with fewer people), then we would either have massive
unemployment because companies are shedding staff because there is
nothing for them to do, or our balance of payments problem would be
solved and businesses would be going gang busters. Unfortunately
neither is happening to an extent that could be attributed to AutoCAD.
More likely, in cases where operators can get the work done sooner,
you have situations where they then sit around doing nothing and get
paid for doing nothing.

The result is a $0 net productivity gain as if the only thing achieved
is a speedier completion of a task and no monetary benefit, then this
is not a productivity gain. As far as a company is concerned, a
productivity gain must see a monetary benefit for it to mean anything.
*Jose Hernandez
Message 105 of 109 (156 Views)

Re: Subscription Price

04-24-2006 03:00 PM in reply to: jvanbenschoten
How about we change the topic to gas prices this week?
I am relly starting to hate those prices, Gas should be free!

- Jose
Valued Contributor
chrisneedham
Posts: 53
Registered: ‎10-30-2003
Message 106 of 109 (156 Views)

Re: Subscription Price

04-24-2006 04:34 PM in reply to: jvanbenschoten
I used to work for a reseller, so I am familiar with the dogma that goes with the job. On a personal level, and using my imagination (for something I don't think will fly anyway), I think that a two-year subscription model would suit many customers. I wouldn't care so much about the subscription price (even if it didn't change, ie. 2 x yearly fee), on the basis that with a 2 year rollout timeline, the new software being released was more refined. Since Autodesk have promised yearly rollouts under the current plan, the quality can suffer. I'd prefer to wait longer for a more polished product. In the meantime, it'd give larger companies more time to get up to speed with the current version and to address their training needs.

As a simple (small) example, I have just downloaded the 'new' new features workshop help file (as a hotfix), but it hasn't fixed the problem. I still can't view the NFW. How a problem this 'public' wasn't noticed in the first place, prior to official release, I can only imagine was due to scheduling issues and the need for further beta testing.

I've recently applied for ADN membership, so will soon be able to actively assist in this testing process (to avoid such issues), but I realise not everyone wants to do this, or has the time.
*Ian A. White
Message 107 of 109 (156 Views)

Re: Subscription Price

04-25-2006 04:45 AM in reply to: jvanbenschoten
On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 22:00:34 +0000, Jose Hernandez
wrote:

>How about we change the topic to gas prices this week?
>I am relly starting to hate those prices, Gas should be free!

You do have it free compared to us!
New Member
Dazza
Posts: 1
Registered: ‎04-27-2006
Message 108 of 109 (156 Views)

Re: Subscription Price

04-27-2006 08:38 PM in reply to: jvanbenschoten
Great point!
Distinguished Contributor
JamesJewett5856
Posts: 123
Registered: ‎12-11-2003
Message 109 of 109 (156 Views)

Re: Subscription Price

06-14-2006 10:27 AM in reply to: jvanbenschoten
Well - having read all the replies, rebuttals, sarcasm and witt of the posts on this thread, I must say that this will be an ongoing and heated discussion for some time. My company has neither the budget nor the time to invest in continual upgrades and training involved. Really, our CAD team plugs along quite happily with the 2D and limited 3D features of autoCad without all the hoopla of fancy features (how I would love to spend the time learning all this stuff, but we're too busy doing ARCHITECTURE) That Said, I would not mind putting all my seats on subscription if 1) it cost a heck of a lot less and 2) I wasn't forced to pay an upgrade cost FIRST. It would be nice to say, charge me $500.00 on get on subscription then hav ADESK send me the next version when it comes out. but instead, I have to Pay $1600.00 PLUS $500.00 just to get on the bandwagon, (example: 20 seats x $2100.00 = $42,000! ouch + PC upgrades etc.) and I've been a customer for 15 years. I'd rather pay <$10,000 but that's just me.
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