Plot sheets, xrefs and visretain - PROJECT MGMT

[Anonymous]

One for the CAD-Gurus:

SUMMARY:
It seems that there is an inherent contradiction between XREFS and VISRETAIN and LAYER STATES for PLOT SHEETS. Has anyone found a satisfying and timesaving way to work with these various animals productively?

DESCRIPTION:
I have PLOT SHEETS that contain XREFS from WORKING DRAWINGS. I set up a WORKING DRAWING for Elevations in which I WBLOCK out the N,S, E and W Elevations which will then be XREFFED into the plot sheets. As I finish the ELEVATION I block it out and then it shows up in my plot sheet.

QUESTION:
If I have VISRETAIN ON in the PLOT SHEET then the additional changes in
LINEWEIGHT,LINETYPE, NEW LAYERS etc which I make in my WBLOCK (i.e. the XREFS) do not show up in the PLOT SHEET. I have to change VISRETAIN to OFF, allow the PLOT SHEET to accept the changes, then try and get back to the layer state that I had originally (this is very tedious) in order for my lineweight, linetype etc changes to show up in the plot sheets. Layer manager does not seem to want to retain a layer state after turning visretain off for some reason.

If anyone has a nice workaround for this please e-mail me if possible to chertok22@hotmail.com. Thanks.

Jon

[Anonymous]

The best bet is to name name things so
that you can recall layer states through
the layer names in the current file
using a script or lisp routine. I
noticed that lman "undoes" layers
completely, including undoing
re-namings. If you don't save a lman
state before recalling an old one, your
new changes are abandoned. Yikes.

The good news if you want to stick with
lman. is the newest version is supposed
to be able to save colors & linetypes
separate from freezing, so maybe thaat
is feasible to depend on?

chertok22 wrote:

> ...If I have VISRETAIN ON in the PLOT
> SHEET then the additional changes in
> LINEWEIGHT,LINETYPE, NEW LAYERS etc
> which I make in my WBLOCK (i.e. the
> XREFS) do not show up in the PLOT
> SHEET. I have to change VISRETAIN to
> OFF, allow the PLOT SHEET to accept
> the changes, then try and get back to
> the layer state that I had originally
> (this is very tedious) in order for my
> lineweight, linetype etc changes to
> show up in the plot sheets. Layer
> manager does not seem to want to
> retain a layer state after turning
> visretain off for some reason.
>
> If anyone has a nice workaround for
> this please e-mail me if possible to
> chertok22@hotmail.com. Thanks.
>
> Jon

[Anonymous]

Jon,

I do not understand the need to use Wblock as an intermediate step between
what you call Working Drawing and what you call Plot Sheet.
Can you please elaborate a little more on that point?

Alfredo Medina
alfmedina@hotmail.com
Moderator

chertok22 wrote:
>
> One for the CAD-Gurus:
>
> SUMMARY:
> It seems that there is an inherent contradiction between XREFS and
> VISRETAIN and LAYER STATES for PLOT SHEETS. Has anyone found a satisfying
> and timesaving way to work with these various animals productively?
>
>(...)

[Anonymous]

Paul - Thanks for the reply.
Can you explain a little more by what you do with layer manager when you have xrefs inserted into a new drawing? You said you have noticed lman undoes layers completely including re-namings. Does this mean that there is no way to use layer manager from drawing to drawing?

If I set up a layer state in a drawing and then insert that drawing into another, will the layer states from the original be able to be used in the new drawing? Is there a way to move layer states from one drawing into a newer drawing without inserting it...etc etc

My current problem is essentially a cosmetic one. I make a drawing and xref it into a plot sheet. I plot the plot sheet and realize that I want a layer to read lighter than the color it has originally been asssigned. I go back to the original drawing to fix this layer's color to a lighter color (so it will be available for other plot sheets that reference this drawing) but have to turn off visretain in order for the plot sheet to accept the new color for that layer.

Visretain off loses all the original layer freezes, so I go back in and freeze what I do not want to show up once again.

I don't want to use a lisp, because it may be that I add new layers in the original and don't want to hassle with lisp and lisp updates.

I'd love to solve this and/or understand it better.

Thanks,

Jonathan

[Anonymous]

Alfredo,

I think it is just another way of working. For me it allows me to be quite messy in the original drawing and include layout lines, miscellaneous information, other drawings etc and to WBLOCK out the information that is final to a separate drawing. This can then be used as a final drawing which doesn't get touched except in the working drawing.

It lets me experiment with the drawing space and still gives me the assurance that the final piece of info that I block out is clean and small in size. Also, If I screw up something in the original drawing at the end of the day, I can go back to the last time I WBlocked and know that I could replace that info back into the original drawing.

JC

[Anonymous]

I'm not that familiar with lman but I'm
skeptical of future support since it is
not core acad & I don't want to base our
long term standards on that. The newer
version should theoretically fix your
problem, you will need to pay for
express tools separately with a2ki. A
lisp solution can be very easy &
absolutely guarantee results if you can
pin down visibility issues with layer
names. Automating color is probably not
so easy to be flexible. Here's a sample
of what I use, it just spits out
wildcard keys as you would at the
command line so it's not dependant on
the lisp, that just makes it easier:

;LAYER CODES
;Planting, Layout, Grading, New,
Demolition, Irrigation, Masterplan,
Electrical, Other
;*-X,
*-P-*,*-L-*,*-G-*,*-D-*,*-I-*,*-M-*,*-E-*,*-O-*

;N-*

;N- -only NEW layers
(Defun c:N- ()
(Command "_.layer" "of" "*" "" "on"
"N-*,*|N-*" "")
(prompt "new layers on only")
(princ)
)
;DEMO -only demolition layers
(Defun c:DEMO ()
(Command "_.layer" "set" "-d-txt" "on"
"*" "of"
"*-X,*-P-*,*-L-*,*-G-*,N-*,*|N-*,*-I-*,*-M-*,*-E-*,*-O-*"

"on" "*-D-*" "off" "*-x" "")
(prompt "demolition layers on only")
(princ)
)

;LAYout -only layout layers
(Defun c:LAY ()
(Command "_.layer" "set" "-L-txt" "on"
"*" "of"
"*-X,*-P-*,*-G-*,*-D-*,*-I-*,*-M-*,*-E-*,*-O-*"

"on" "*-L-*" "off" "*-x" "")
(prompt "LAYOUT layers on only")
(princ)
)


chertok22 wrote:

> Paul - Thanks for the reply.
> Can you explain a little more by what
> you do with layer manager when you
> have xrefs inserted into a new
> drawing? You said you have noticed
> lman undoes layers completely
> including re-namings. Does this mean
> that there is no way to use layer
> manager from drawing to drawing?
>
> If I set up a layer state in a drawing
> and then insert that drawing into
> another, will the layer states from
> the original be able to be used in the
> new drawing? Is there a way to move
> layer states from one drawing into a
> newer drawing without inserting
> it...etc etc
>
> My current problem is essentially a
> cosmetic one. I make a drawing and
> xref it into a plot sheet. I plot the
> plot sheet and realize that I want a
> layer to read lighter than the color
> it has originally been asssigned. I go
> back to the original drawing to fix
> this layer's color to a lighter color
> (so it will be available for other
> plot sheets that reference this
> drawing) but have to turn off
> visretain in order for the plot sheet
> to accept the new color for that
> layer.
>
> Visretain off loses all the original
> layer freezes, so I go back in and
> freeze what I do not want to show up
> once again.
>
> I don't want to use a lisp, because it
> may be that I add new layers in the
> original and don't want to hassle with
> lisp and lisp updates.
>
> I'd love to solve this and/or
> understand it better.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jonathan

[Anonymous]

Paul,

No need to worry about future support of the LMAN (Layer Manager) command.
Its features have been included in core AutoCAD 2000i, within the regular
Layer Control Dialog box. That means that now you can save and restore
layer states from within the Layer command, without using the Layer Manager
(LMAN) command, of Bonus or Express Tools.

Alfredo Medina
alfmedina@hotmail.com
Moderator

Paul Furman wrote:
>
> I'm not that familiar with lman but I'm
> skeptical of future support since it is
> not core acad & I don't want to base our
> long term standards on that. (...)

[Anonymous]

JC,

Ok, so it's like a method you use for saving possible layouts that you may
or may not use later on. Or a way of saving different alternatives of the
same layout. The only drawback I'm seeing is that your plot sheets never
update from a single location because they do not use X-refs.
Ok, but then, I still don't understand what this has to do with Visretain.
Because Visretain has to do with X-refs and you are not using X-refs.

Alfredo Medina
alfmedina@hotmail.com
Moderator

chertok22 wrote:
>
> Alfredo,
>
> I think it is just another way of working. (...)

[Anonymous]

Alfredo,

I am using XREFs in the PLOT SHEETS. I use a working drawing and BLOCK OUT information from that drawing. This drawing is then used as the XREF into the PLOT SHEET. One WOWRKING DRAWING, one WBLOCK and one PLOT SHEET. The WBLOCK is xreffed into the PLOT SHEET.

The problem is that if I update a WORKING DRAWING and a WBLOCK I need to take VISRETAIN OFF so that the linetype etc will update in the PLOT SHEET. If VISRETAIN is OFF I cannot maintain my layer states. Does this seem understandable? If I see a PLOT and want to change the weight of a line I go back into the WORKING DRAWING and update the drawing. This will only go through to the PLOT SHEET if VISRETAIN if OFF, but this will not allow me to maintain my layer states in the PLOT SHEET.

Anybody got a solution without a LISP routine? I don't really want to get into LISPS for this, because the layer states will be different for EVERY SINGLE Plot Sheet and moreover, the layer states are changing for EVERY plot sheet as the project moves along. For instance if I add a layer in the drawing I need it to go through to the PLOT SHEET and want to set this layer on or off only once.

Somebody has got to have an easy workaround for this yes? It can't be that one can only update a drawing if it must go through to the PLOT SHEET - OR - only keep the layer states in the PLOT SHEET and not have any updates to the XREF that can carry through to the PLOT SHEET.

I must be missing something somewhere, because it seems that working with PLOT SHEETS and XREFS is exceedingly mindnumbing if one is updating the XREFS as the project moves along.

Jon

[Anonymous]

Jon,

Ok, Now I understad. Well, my suggestion is this: leave Visretain alone
and use the Layer Manager (LMAN command) to change to different display of
colors in the Plot Sheet. That will simplify your work, because you don't
have to change properties (color,linetype, etc,) in the Working drawing nor
in the Wblock drawing, to have the Plot Sheet display different colors.
Using the layer manager you will handle this LOCALLY in the Plot Sheet
drawing. How does it sound?

Alfredo Medina
alfmedina@hotmail.com
Moderator

chertok22 wrote:
>
> Alfredo,
>
> I am using XREFs in the PLOT SHEETS. I use a working drawing and BLOCK
> OUT information from that drawing. This drawing is then used as the XREF
> into the PLOT SHEET. One WOWRKING DRAWING, one WBLOCK and one PLOT SHEET.
> The WBLOCK is xreffed into the PLOT SHEET.
>
(...)

[Anonymous]

Alfredo,

Thanks for the reply. I have to solve this problem, so it is good of you to help me think it through...

Seems like I would leave VISRETAIN ON or (1) and change lineweights in the PLOT SHEET. VISRETAIN ON or (1)would maintain the settings for the lineweights - - - but I think if I made any changes in the original drawing that they would not show up in the XREF in the PLOT SHEET.

For instance if I moved an object to another layer in the XREF, the PLOT SHEET would still print out with the original layer (and color) assignment...

Seems like there should be a convenient way to keep working on drawings that are already set up in PLOT SHEETS...Why can't I maintain my freeze setting in the PLOT SHEETS AND update lineweights in an XREF??

This seems like it is still a problem, doesn't it?

Cheers,

Jon

[Anonymous]

Jon,

Do you have the LMAN command? I suggested that without asking first.
I think keeping Visretain alone, at 1 all the time, can save you some
headaches. I also think it is more convenient to handle this locally in
each drawing, restoring local layer states, or making local changes to the
layers. Visretain is one of those variables that should be kept alone, and
used only in special cases.

Alfredo Medina
alfmedina@hotmail.com
Moderator

chertok22 wrote:
>
> Alfredo,
>
> Thanks for the reply. I have to solve this problem, so it is good of you
> to help me think it through...
>
(...)

[Anonymous]

After reading all of the posts to this message I
was reminded of a trick posted to this newsgroup a while back. 

After you have made changes to an xref and need
those to be updated into the dwg use this process:

1. turn visretain to 0.  2.  go to xref
manager.  3. unload your xref  4. reload your xref.  5.  dwg
is updated to latest xref dwg info.  6. exit layer manager & visretain
back to 1

I think that is the right process - search back a
few weeks and you will find the original post. 

This process could be customized easily - you could
have a button that saves your layer state (maybe) does all this and then saves
the layer state again so that it is current to the xrefs latest.  I'm not
sure how you could do it with more than one layer state.  Maybe do it for
each layer state. 

Anyway, play around with that little tip. 
It's cool and handy!  I forget who figured it out, but thanks! Now, if I
could just get everything to plot right.

Matt Fridell

href="mailto:saladays@gwtc.net">saladays@gwtc.net

[Anonymous]

Matt,

Glad I checked up on this. Thanks for the information - it sounds just complicated enough to work, but just easy enough to save me a good deal of time.

Really appreciate the tip and will be checking into it ASAP.

Cheers,

Jonathan

[Anonymous]

Matt,

Think I found the reference - June 29th - for those that need it, it is pasted below********************************************************Perhaps everybody knows this already but... I finally figured out that with R2000 you can reset a single xref's layer states by setting visretain to 0, unloading, reloading & resetting visretain to 1. In R14 a simple reload without unloading worked & until today, I thought with 2000 it was necessary to close the drawing with visretain at 0 which loses ALL xref layer states.