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My Noob Question for 2014

12 REPLIES 12
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Message 1 of 13
donest
503 Views, 12 Replies

My Noob Question for 2014

Using Surface Studio 2014. When trying to offset a surface that I have created, and using offset, it appears to be working but when clicking "offset" the new surface snaps back to the original. I tried deleting construction history but it still behaves that way. Any ideas? I have created a new file with a simple surface and it works as it should.

12 REPLIES 12
Message 2 of 13
ravenzep
in reply to: donest

Hi Donest,

Can you upload the problematic surface?...since it seems to work well with other surfaces, this surface must have something.

Cheers 🙂

Message 3 of 13
donest
in reply to: ravenzep

Hi, I am at home today, but will tomorrow. There must be a problem with that surface or the file. I will try to delete all other objects in the file and work just with that surface. I cut a prototype of the entire file, and noticed a problem with one area. A crease where there are several CVs on top of each other, or they may be crossed.

Message 4 of 13
ravenzep
in reply to: donest

Hi,

Yeah, must be something like that....You got me curious now...eheheh.

Ok man....looking forward to seeing it when u can.

 

Regards

Message 5 of 13
donest
in reply to: ravenzep

Here is the surface. Please, I know the 1st thing that you are going to say is...too many spans!. But I have to have what I call a "dense" (lots of isoparms) surface in order to cut a model. With very few isoparms, when converting to stl, I end up with a model that has huge, or very obvious triangles. So to correct that, in areas that are curved, I add geometry. Larger, flatter surfaces do not require this.

Originally, I made this surface by birailing the handle, and then birailing the bowl. I didn't like the tangency where the bowl meets the handle, so decided to use the geometry to create a new surface by skinning one isoparm to the next all the way up to create one surface instead of two.

Message 6 of 13
TheHangman
in reply to: donest

Hey Donest

 

Just looking into your file, its possible to see the high curvature face, which is not good for Alias. it has way to many spans, complex vertices with many edges and when offset the whole surface automatically Alias doesn't like it and gives the error. 

 

I have split the model to give a try and you can see the results. Also not even Inventor or either SW offset it. 

 

Resolution, build it with few patches it will be better.

 

If this solved your issue please mark this posting "Accept as Solution". Or if you like something that was said and it was helpful, Kudoskudos.PNG are appreciated. Thanks!!!! :smileyhappy:

If this solved your issue please mark this posting "Accept as Solution". Or if you like something that was said and it was helpful, Kudoskudos.PNG are appreciated. Thanks!!!! Smiley Happy
Message 7 of 13
donest
in reply to: TheHangman

I don't see any difference in the number of spans between what I did and what you did, but at least it worked...somewhat. If you look at the side view (back) you will see something funny going on at the end of the handle. On the tip of the bowl as well. At the tip of the bowl I could probably fix manually. Maybe trim a little on the end of the handle. Again, I have a lot of spans to make a smooth stl file.

Message 8 of 13
donest
in reply to: donest

Hmmm....I took the offsets that you created and deleted them. I then reduced the number of spans from 14 on the X axis to 1, and the spans along the Y axis from 35 to 12. That seemed to work very well. Some minor adjustment maybe, but when I meshed it it looked good too! Thanks. I will try to recut the model and see how it looks.

Message 9 of 13
ravenzep
in reply to: donest

HI guys,

Sorry I only had time to have a look at it now.

Before opening the file, and just from what i read here, when i read the word spans, it scared me....Why spans? Spans will mean trouble later.

Anyway, for such a simple shape, why are u using so many spans?

This spoon could have been made from 3 or 4 surfaces all one span....and trimming at the end, to achieve the desired shape.

I dont understand....

 

Another thing i dont understand, is why the file has ICEM supposedly settings. Very tight tolerances....this is not icem , it s alias, and icem blows alias away, regarding accuracy. And to make things even worse, it has RATIONAL flags ON.

 

I dont get it, why you cant do that with simple 1 span surfaces.

Looks like a rhino file to me this spoon. ICEM doesnt do that at all.

Anyway, looks like you are sorted now. Great.

 

Regards.

 

 

 

 

Message 10 of 13
TheHangman
in reply to: ravenzep

Hi 

 

For assistance purpose, the file setting (ICEM) for such model is not highly important, A default setting would do the job. also I just want to see what was the problem and try to help. I believe for such model and operation the setting data doesn't affect the result at this stage.

 

As I mention previously and even Donest concerned about the main issue, If I need to model such thing the spoon I would definitivelly have a different approach just as said, I would have few single span patches possibly. In regards to rational flag, it was set up due to the precision requested. 

 

I am sorry if I have kept the file setting from work bonded to it, by the way not original surface has been touched, only ctrl + c and ctrl + v and default offset

 

Cheers! hope it clarify your query. 

 

If this solved your issue please mark this posting "Accept as Solution". Or if you like something that was said and it was helpful, Kudoskudos.PNG are appreciated. Thanks!!!! Smiley Happy
Message 11 of 13
ravenzep
in reply to: TheHangman

HI aqhead,

 

Thanks for the input 😉

Wow man, that is real precision.....Scary, hehehe. I understand, surely there should be reasons, of course.

 

But using rational flags in alias, it will start to border the Red Line, i dont believe alias can cope with that, and it is not meant for it ( I THINK!)...I wish alias were accurate enough even without rational flags.On the opposite side, i must say Catia hyper accuracy annoys me a lot. I m not a fan anyway.

All sorted now.

Cheers

Message 12 of 13
donest
in reply to: TheHangman

Hi guys, and thanks for your input. I didn't realize that that ICEM construction settings were checked. I never use them! I was playing around one day with the settings and forgot that I had not reset them.

As for modeling such a thing, I just always prefer a single surface to multi sufaces or patches. I can't remember if I was taught that, or if I just migrated that way as time went by. Worth looking into though. I always scratched my head when seeing a car model with so many single span surfaces. But I imagine as a designer, you must send those files to Engineering/Manufacturing where they take the file into software that creates a tool path for CNC machining. I have to do the same thing, but I must first take it into our rapidprototyping software for that same purpose. I then send an iges file to our factory where they use entirely different software for their CNC.

I also want to add that this type of modeling does not happen very often for me. I spend most of my time working in PhotoShop, or Illustrator to create designs. Since I'm relatively new to Illustrator, I found that it is easier for me to use Alias as a substitue for Illustrator (I really hate manipulating all of those little handles) and then export to Illustrator, export from there to Photoshop. Occasionally I get a request for Flatware, and I do a lot of sterling Christmas ornaments in Alias.

I ended up using Alias because back in 1995 we had two employees who had been computer science students as well as business. They looked around at various software that was available at the time, and decided that Alias was by far the best. At that time, we had to purcahse Silicon Graphics, Indigo2 machines to run Alias on. Prior to that, everything had to be done by hand. Starting with a pencil drawing on vellum. The vellum was folded and that crease was the centerline. So one side was designed and then the paper was folded and the design traced to produce the other side as accurately folowing the 1st side as possible. The design was then enlarged 2 1/2 times and a clay model was made. From the claymodel an epoxy was cast and this was traced on a Pantograph machine to cut a tool for manufacturing. I also ran one of those Pantographs for a few years and did hand work on the tools as well. This was all very labor intensive. Even the hand polishing of the tools with 4 different grits of stones and two different grits of emery. Polishing with a flexible shaft or other device was forbidden! My supervisor in the design area had worked for General Motors making the full size clay models of automobiles and he was a real master at it. I'm trying to attach a photo of one of the models that he created. One side had to exactly match the other (left to right) and the model had to be the correct thickness in every area or there would be trouble in manufacturing.Spoon.jpg

Message 13 of 13
ravenzep
in reply to: donest

Nice.

I have enjoyed reading that 🙂

 

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