Useless Vault Library, Help?

[pkquat]

The rules of this forum prohibit me from using language that would adequately and accurately describe how badly the Libraries work in Vault. Ultimately I would call it grounds to void the subscription under false advertising and a beta product. This is a fix I would not pay for. I expect to see it included under the current Vault Revision. There are no excuses for is operation. The Vault Library removes faith in Product Stream as even an option. If it is, then it should be free as a fix for the Libraries.

Regular Inventor Shared or Semi Isolated projects with libraries work fine or at least to a usable level with Read / Write permissions to folders. Regular parts in Vault also work to an acceptable level. Why not Vault Libraries? The management of iPart Children is (The rules of this forum prohibit….)^2. What is Autodesk’s plan to vastly improve Vault Libraries? Will they work like regular Vault and regular Inventor Libraries?

We are a company that has recently moved to Vault, and in the process cleaning up our library parts and structure. We also will have new standard library style parts that will need to be added on at least a monthly basis, and we update various purchased part models about once a month when new information is received, or we can create a more detailed model. Vault Libraries currently make this maintenance unacceptable. I am skeptical about leaving these library style parts as regular directories. Again this could easily become a management pain. If you DO fix this Library failure so it is at least as good as regular Inventor, then we could have another complete headache and great expenditure moving to a more proper setup. I am honestly considering cutting our losses and getting a refund for Vault in favor of Inventor and Windows folder permissions. This gives me much greater flexibility and some semblance of normal operation. The benefit of versions may not be great enough. What is Autodesk’s recommendation based on their roadmap? What are other users recommendations?

This brings up my next major complaint. I expect to have folder - database permissions within Vault much like Windows and other database programs offer in the VERY near future. This is more than a wishlist item, it is an obvious requirement. Sadly, the handling of Vault Libraries have cast MUCH doubt that the thought of folder permissions are on your road map for the next release. For my subscription fees, I would still expect to see folder permissions included in Vault 5.X or sooner based on the initial global permissions provided. The global permissions you have now are not enough.

Lastly I would also like to see better handling of the Vault Project.ipj from within Inventor. Inventor should either read the project directly from Vault, notify you when Inventor starts that there is a new version – would you like to get it, or see my project status and get the latest version from within Inventor without having to open a part, close it, exit the project, open Vault Explorer, and Get Latest Version. Even though the project file should not change very often, the current method leaves the door WIDE open for any type of mistake. The creation of a Startup batch file was required to steal the Project from Vault to ensure all users had a current copy at the start of each day. Again this is not really a wishlist item. Better handling seems very obvious to me.

For the short term, if there are ways to actually manage and use Vault libraries that will regularly have new parts added to them, please let me know.

Pete

[Anonymous]

"This brings up my next major complaint. I expect to have folder - database permissions within Vault much like Windows and other database programs offer in the VERY near future. This is more than a wishlist item, it is an obvious requirement."

"Lastly I would also like to see better handling of the Vault Project.ipj from within Inventor. Inventor should either read the project directly from Vault, notify you when Inventor starts that there is a new version – would you like to get it, or see my project status and get the latest version from within Inventor without having to open a part, close it, exit the project, open Vault Explorer, and Get Latest Version. Even though the project file should not change very often, the current method leaves the door WIDE open for any type of mistake. The creation of a Startup batch file was required to steal the Project from Vault to ensure all users had a current copy at the start of each day. Again this is not really a wishlist item. Better handling seems very obvious to me."

Couldn't agree more with both points.

[Anonymous]

Pete,

I don't fully understand what your problems are in regards to Libraries
when used in conjuction with Vault. Can you explain your problems a bit
more clearly?

From what I can understand in your post, you didn't have problems with
Library files in a non-vault environment, so why is it that you are having
problems under Vault?

--
Ryan Small
SolidCAD
Senior Application Specialist
Autodesk Inventor Certified Expert
Autodesk Manufacturing Implementation Certified Expert
Email: rsmall@solidcad.ca

1016 Sutton Drive, Bldg. B, Suite 204
Burlington, ON L7L 6B8
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wrote in message news:4989216@discussion.autodesk.com...

For the short term, if there are ways to actually manage and use Vault
libraries that will regularly have new parts added to them, please let me
know.

Pete

[pkquat]

I had mainly used the libraries in a shared environment in the past. I am pretty sure it worked similar in semi-isolated as well.

The key is that the libraries pointed to one location, and referenced files from that common location. Vault does not. It requires a "local" copy of those files. The default is to have them on a local hard drive (which is the extent of all the documentation we received). By having a Vault project it HAS to look at these local copies, and you HAVE to HAVE local copies for it to open. The ONLY way I have seen to get local copies is through "Get Latest Version" through Vault Explorer. If there are any additions to the library that are required when you open a file from Vault, it won't open. When you open a file from Vault, it doesn't update the local library files. It can get OTHER files from Vault why can't it get Library copies? That's @#$%@#$%! I would think no matter what your local Library copies would get overridden by Vault. Then again if it is a Library in Vault why do I need really need a local version? The only time I would need one is if I am editing a Library part.

There is also the issue local versions out of date, checking out parents, and checking in new children. The whole control of this sucks. It a Library! I want only a few people in control of it managing what gets checked out. I am fine with the addition of children, but not when things are out of date. Users shouldn't have to deal with the issues either because their library is out of date.

TO the best of our reseller's knowledge this is how the Vault Libraries operate. They were not impressed either.

I did find a workaround by putting the library in a common network location so at least everyone was looking at the same source. This will also allow network permissions. I am pretty sure it also solves the issue any parents being out of date, but what if I have one checked out to work on it. It will try to get it from that network location. What if they use an intermediate copy, or check out is undone?

My previous set up was to have the parents in a folder with Read Only access to most users, and Write access to a few people managing the library. This was part of our ISO procedures to ensure document control, and prevented the "Save Library" override. Everyone had Write access to the children.

Pete

[Squeezer]

I did not have much trouble with vaulted libraries (but I don'y use iparts) I had it set up on the network share so there were never any library files downloaded to the user local and all library parts were always kept in synch.

Basically you can continue to run libraries exactly like you did in the semi-isolated mode. Yes there are copies made but they are only made to the network share.The downside of this setup is that if your network is slow, you get better performance with the library downloading to the local. But if you can take the slight performance hit, the network setup is pretty easy to manage.

I have heard some people say they have had issues with iparts when vaulting

The library files in our case were not intended to be checked out or edited much except by myself. When files required editing, I used a differt ipj file which was located in the top library folder (lib ipts were in sub folders of that) only under that ipj could the files be edited or checked out.

There is a whitepaper by Brian Schaenen on library files as normal folders that offers a different way to handle this issue & I believe addresses the problems when using iParts.

Sue

[pkquat]

With the Inventors modes the library files seemed seemless. Again we used the "Shared" mode, and I don't completely recall how IV worked in Semi-Isolated mode when we tried it out. I don't remember having local library copies though, or at least having anything that could get out of sync.

Pete

[Anonymous]

Pete:

We use libraries in much the same way that you do. And while
we welcome any and all improvements to library file management, the way we
have our vaulted libraries configured everything is working quite well today. So
I am including a description of our file organization and workflow below in the
hope that it will be of some use to you.

Briefly, we place our library files in a single location on
the network which is accessible to all Inventor users. The first screenshot
below shows the network location and our library folder hiearchy. You will
notice that the "Libraries" folder includes thre folders: "Auto Generated",
"Pending Library Models", and "User Generated". The "User Generated" folder is
where we place all of the library files we use. Some of these are iParts, and
the iPart children are placed in the "Auto Generated" folder. You will notice
that I have expanded its "Drive Components" subfolder showing further subfolders
corresponding to various iParts in "User Created\Drive Components" (iPart child
redirection is accomplished by defining library paths with a
leading underscore character in the project file). The "Pending Library
Models" folder is where we store library models prior to release.

We have also defined library folders in the vault which
match our network folder hiearchy (except for the "Pending Library Models"
folder). The second screenshot shows our vault and its folders. You will notice
that the working folder for the vault "Libraries" folder is
"\\Usnc-lde-001\DATA\ENG\Application Support\Inventor 10\Libraries" which is the
shared network location. My local vault working folder, however,
is "\\Usnc-lde-001\MTrull\My Documents\Vault Working
Folder\" (shown in the third screenshot) which is only accessible to me. So
Vault copies library files to the shared location while editable files (project
files) are copied to my local workspace.

Inventor is configured to access our library files by adding
library paths to our project Vault project file. The fourth screen shot shows
our Vault project file entries. You will notice that each folder with the "User
Generated" folder has a library path entry. We could have done this with a
single entry for the "User Generated" folder, but I like having the various
categories show up in the Place Dialogue Box so we use individual entries. Each
library path entry has a duplicate entry preceded by the underscore character
and includes a path within the "Auto Generated" folder. These are
the entries that redirect iPart children to be stored in the "Auto
Generated" folder.

From inside Inventor, all of the library paths, including the
underscore entries, must be mapped to the vault. However the iPart folders
("Flat Face Idler", "Gearbelt Pulleys", "QD Bushings", etc.) are not manually
mapped to the vault inside of Inventor since they are created automatically
on the network by Inventor and are then created automatically inside the vault
by Vault when iPart children inside the folders are checked into the
vault.

When creating new library parts, I store them in my vault
working folder. When they are complete, I move them to the shared location on
the network and place them into an assembly from there. The first time a new
iPart is placed an assembly after being moved to the shared network location,
Inventor will want to save it when you save the host assembly so it can update
its path to reflect its new location. While annoying, I now know to expect
this behavior and have become accustomed to saving assemblies repeatedly until
Inventor has these files fully updated.

When you next check in the host assembly, any library files
not already in the vault will be checked in. As mentioned earlier, any
folders created by Inventor to store iPart children will be automatically
created inside the vault. If I am adding library files which are not being used
immediatley within an assembly, I will add them to a temporary assembly, save it
one or more times to let Invnetor update the library file paths, and then
add the temporary assembly to the vault just to get the library files
added. I then delete the temporary assembly from the vault and my local vault
working folder.

I no longer edit library files in place in the shared library
(although I still have "Vault Library File Maintenance" project file defined
should I want to). I copy the current file from the library to my vault working
folder, edit it, and then copy it back to the shared library folder. The next
time its host assembly is checked in, the revised library file will be added as
a new version of that library file.

The reason I no longer edit files from within the shared
library is that I do not want to inconvenience other users by making them put up
with a library file that is changing numerous times over the course of being
edited. I much prefer working on it independently and then moving it back into
the library at the end of the day when no one has any projects
open.

I hope you find this description useful.

Sincerely,

Michael

[img src="@92446"]

[pkquat]

Yet one more thing that does not work.

With Vault your library children will not update automatically if you make a change to the factory part. You have to manually fix every _____ iPart child.

The work around is to open both the Library factory part and the child, fit "Rebuild All" for the factory, and then the child updates, then save both. If you check the factory back in, but missed one, you will have to check the factory out again adding yet another no change version.

Pete