2013 INV taking FOREVER to load models with bitmap images

[kwilson_design]

We seem to be having an issue with Inventor and Vault regarding models that have a bitmap image file on them. Basically we make models to represent our labels, nameplates, decals, etc. When trying to open these files in Inventor they can take a LONG time to finally open. Sometimes up to 5 minutes, or worse, it will crash Inventor due to waiting so long and never opens the file!!

This was never an issue in the past versions of Vault or INV. Also Vault shows this taking an unusual amount of time to check out/in these files.

I’m not sure if this needs to be escalated to Autodesk directly or not as a bug or issue with the 2013 software but it seems to happen on most of our models that use a bitmap when in previous versions we've never had an issue.

Rant mode: 2013 Inventor seems to be very unstable amongst all of our users here. Many reports of it crashing for no reason in my company. I'm hoping the SP1 is coming out ASAP as this is a pretty disappointing release of INV than previous versions despite all the new features and "enhancements" they've made in 2013. IMHO they need to quit focusing on adding new stuff 'n fluff and fix the things that have been broken or poorly implemented over the years. But that's enough of my rant on that. Just frustrated when I have to deal with this crap crashing all the time when I'm in the middle of a huge project, which doesn't help the matter. /rant

[ChrisMitchell01]

Kenny,

I looked up your 2013 crash reports; I "only" see 3 from your entire companies' email domain. 2 of them were due to a vault add-in issue that was hotfixed a couple of weeks ago - http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/ps/dl/item?siteID=123112&id=19384851&linkID=9261341

The other was on a vault login, so there may also be other vault hotfixes to investigate - http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/ps/dl/index?siteID=123112&id=2334435&linkID=9261341#section1

Inventor 2013 Update 1 is now live on the Data & Downloads site :

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/ps/dl/item?siteID=123112&id=19656800&linkID=9242019

Have you installed this too ?

I'm not aware of specific issues relating to models with bitmaps causing performance degradation/crashes, though; hopefully someone else will comment on that.

If you are having many crashes, then please ensure that they are all being sent in, so that they can be investigated further.

Thanks,
Chris

[kwilson_design]

It is no surprise my coworkers do not fill out and send in the error report. That does not = there is not issues we are experiencing. Trust me, we have lots of crashes daily. I'm lucky if I can get them to sit down in the office to make good, strong models , much less expect them to be patient enough to fill out a the error description and send it in. I will remind them on Monday to start sending them in even though they know they "should" be doing it. I can only lead the horse to see the water. It's up to him to drink it. Know what I mean 😜

Yes I have sent in my own errors reports. I don't keep sending in the same crash error report because what is the point? It should show up on your 'list'. One of them is the software will not close unless using task manager. I attempted to create a topic on here about it after sending in the error report but it timed out and is in my draft topics on here but it won't let me post the topic for whatever reason. Probably because I was trying to post from mobile. Who knows. What I did manage to find out after submitting the error report is that I CAN close the software safely if I right click on the task bar and click "close". If I try that in the top right corner it will never lose and will have to be force closed via task manager or clicking repeatedly on the screen until Windows takes over with its typical washed out screen "this program did not close...".

But at any rate that is not what this thread is about. I will be more than happy to send you sample data sets of files we see this excessive load times on. Please provide me your email as I cannot post the files publicly online.

I saw today that "Update1" came out recently. I have downloaded but not installed the hotfix. I will try it and see if there is any improvement even though its not listed on the release notes as a 'fix'. I'll update with my findings post hotfix install.

[kwilson_design]

OK I think I may of figured out what is going on. Or let me rephrase, I think I see the issue that is happening. It appears that Vault or Inventor is not bringing the bitmap image down anymore when checking out the file or opening it read-only. The image is there but it's like cache or something. Inventor tries to perform a resolve link to the bitmap. So I'm not sure if this is an Inventor issue or a Vault issue now (we're on Vault 2013 Pro). This would possibly explain why INV is taking so long to open files since it can't find the bitmap.

Now this is starting to make a little sense in that we've also recently been experiencing issues with missing or unresolved files in assemblies that otherwise prior to updating to all 2013 ADSK software there were no unresolved file issues with these assemblies. We are maybe 4-5 weeks into the new 2013 software and are starting to see things that are making us nervous. Why are the files, both assemblies and part files with hildren (bitmaps), having issues with unresolved references all of the sudden?

I have tried in Vault Actions/Update File Reference and it doesn't seem to help.

Is anyone else experiencing this issue?

BTW just installed Update1 for INV2013.

[Senthil_Kumar]

Hi Kenny,

When you Open the files from Vault all the files will be downloaded to the disk and then they will be opened in Inventor. If you are seeing Resolve link, I can think of 2 reasons

a. Either the file is not there

b. File is there but NOT available in the correct Project Location

So few things you can try and let us know how it goes.

1. Use Get/Check out command from Vault Explorer and just download the files (Ensure you are download includes the images also) to local disk

2. Now try to Open the file from Disk and see whether you see Resolve link or not.

3. Try creating new files with Images and see if they work correct or not.

Hope the above should help us to find out the cause.

[kwilson_design]

I'm aware how Vault downloads the files. This is or 3rd release of Vault.

Yes the files (bitmaps in this case) are in Vault.
Yes we use one project file and one workspace. The default project file in Vaukt is also set to the correct project file. Basically nothing has changed in terms of settings or files from 2012 release yet we are seeing issues.

I will create. Some new data sets on Monday to see what the behavior is.

Thanks for your reply

[ChrisMitchell01]

Hi Kenny,

Thanks for the offer of your datasets next week, that should enable Senthil to investigate further. You are correct though, if the required bitmap files are not being retrieved from vault, (reason still TBD), then Inventor will do a search for the file using the current project file settings. Only after that search has been exhausted will the "parent" data open. Have any folder structures been changed, or project settings been modified ?

I would like to comment about crash reports. Please do send in every crash report that you experience in normal daily use.

We look at the frequency of crashes in particular modules to help decide on priorities for fixing. The more crashes we get from the more customers, then that area will likely get more attention. Even if your team doesn't have the time to fill in any specific details or prefer not to include an email address, please do try send them all in. The crash dump info & will still be of use.

Thanks,
Chris

[kwilson_design]

Chris,

No folder structures or project files has changed other than migration and where I'm pointing for templates and design data (we installed new VM server). Our reseller helped with the migration.

I'll send you files Monday. Please provide email. Thanks for helping to both of you.

Kenny

[kwilson_design]

I’m back in the office now. When I open an assembly in Inventor that has missing children, it then asks me if I want to download the files from Vault. I click yes and the assembly finds all the missing children. All looks well until you go to check back in the assembly. It then thinks the children that it downloaded from Vault are brand new files and won’t let the assembly be checked back in because it sees the children files already exist in Vault. It’s like it forgets how to download the files.

To fix as a work around, I then right click on the file in Inventor and tell it to “Get Revision” which then downloads the latest Vault file I believe. From that list did this for “00213 Hose End Pltd…” and “00393 Noz Plas…” children files….

Now notice how that is no longer on the list of files it sees in Vault when I try to check in the assembly…

What would cause this kind of behavior? I have to do this for ANY file that has a child which includes any ipt model with a bitmap. So this is starting to make sense why I'm seeing the same behaviour for both assemblies and part files that have a parent/child relationship. The worst of it all is that even drawings (IDW and Inventor DWG) have to have this same work around" done manually every time I want to check in the file. As you can iimagine its a time consuming and frustrating issue we're dealing with now.

We never experienced this on 2012 or prior versions of Vault and Inventor. Strange but we need to try and get it resolved soon if possible before this gets nasty with lots of users checking out assemblies and not knowing how to resolve these issues. I'm also working with our reseller's support team and I will relay any resolution they may come up with.

[Senthil_Kumar]

Hi Kenny,

Thanks for your reply. I am suspecting something to do with the Check-in dialog and including the Children during Check-in. So Can you please try this and let us know if that helps?

1. Ensure in the Vault Explorer Client, if you select the Assembly and go to Uses Tab you see the Images and all the required files

2. Ensure you have NOT suppressed the Check-in dialog inside Inventor

3. Ensure you have INCLUDED the Children during Check-in. The checkbox to include Children should be checked.

Please let us know the results after trying the above.

[kwilson_design]

OK I have an update and I know this thread is kind of multi-topic related but oh well.

I did some testing yesterday using two Vault users. One is domain and the other isn't. I had been using the non-domain user for an Inventor iLogic project I'm working on (replacing old ilogic with new). While I was the non-domain user is when I began to notice all the issues with children not being downloaded. I didn't think that would make an issue, and it might not for all I kow. However I checked in all the files I had checked out and then logged on as my personal Vault domain user account and all is well with Vault / Inventor downloading the children. I'm not sure if that is an issue or not but so far it seemed to work.

We also had a Cisco network switch go out last Thursday here that affected my hallway at the office. But I had been seeing the parent / child issue prior to Thursday so I don't think that was the cause either.

However the issue still remains with ipt models that use bitmaps taking a long time to load. Granted these bitmaps are sometimes a large as 20MB, as they are created 1:1 scale directly from a native Adobe Illustrator file that is 1:1 scale. So nameplates and decals can be dimenionsed as large as 3 7/8 x 15". But this was never an issue in the past with Inventor and it always opened these same files almost immediately. But wqith 2013 it seems to take a long time to load. I even resized one of the bitmaps down to 1MB (roughly 800 x 800 pixels at 16 bit) and it still took a long time to load. I'm not sure why ADSK insists on using bitmaps anyways. I know that bitmaps can provide a higher resolution than say a jpeg but you will never see that resolution in Inventor, nor would you have a need to. Shiowcase or other rendering software for product shots? Sure. I wished Inventor would allow you to use a jepg as this would / should decrease load times and overall model file size as jepgs typically are 3x less file size than the same dimension sized bitmap. 

I wished I could upload a video for you on here to show you how long it takes and some of the theories or testing I've tried to correct it. But the upload size on here is only 1.5 MB so I can't compress a Camtasia video down that small and it be any decent length of video (>5 mins).

[Senthil_Kumar]

Hi Kenny,

Thanks for your reply. Please send an email to me directly at senthil.kumar@autodesk.com . I will send you a link to upload the video. You can upload Up to 100MB I guess. If possible please send me a Part with the Bitmap image attached and I will see if I can reproduce the same issue here.

Thanks!

[kwilson_design]

Hi,

I will send you some files today.

As a nice surprise  bonus I think they added jpeg and other image file capability with 2013! I didn't realize this until today when creating a new label model. This should help a ton moving forward!!