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Project Structure versus Folder Structure.

13 REPLIES 13
Reply
Message 1 of 14
cadmageren
355 Views, 13 Replies

Project Structure versus Folder Structure.

Hi good Vault people.

I am considering how to set up a good Folder structure for our projects.

Working with a project structure, it would be something like.
\\Assemblies\
\\Components\
\\Pipes\
\\Drawings\
...

This is the logical way to work within a project, and have a good overview of the files involved. But I is not a good structure, when we want to copy an existing project to a new. Typically we might want to reuse 50% of an existing project. So no we have a new projectfolder, where 50% of the components should be referenced from another projectfolder. And we might want to copy an engine from a third project... Very fast this will become very complex, and not logical at all. The alternative is to simply COPY all files to the new project. This keeps the logical structure, but instead we end up with a lot of dubblets, making it impossible to track revisions.

Am I the only one looking at this paradox?
I don't think Productstream has a solution for this?

/Michael Christoffersen
13 REPLIES 13
Message 2 of 14
Anonymous
in reply to: cadmageren

Maybe you could put the parts you reuse into a libraryfolder that is valid
for all projects? Vault will track what version of the part is used in what
assembly, note this is not a revision. For revisions you need PS but this is
independent from your folderstructure.

Jerry

schreef in bericht news:5145392@discussion.autodesk.com...
Hi good Vault people.

I am considering how to set up a good Folder structure for our projects.

Working with a project structure, it would be something like.
\\Assemblies\
\\Components\
\\Pipes\
\\Drawings\
...

This is the logical way to work within a project, and have a good overview
of the files involved. But I is not a good structure, when we want to copy
an existing project to a new. Typically we might want to reuse 50% of an
existing project. So no we have a new projectfolder, where 50% of the
components should be referenced from another projectfolder. And we might
want to copy an engine from a third project... Very fast this will become
very complex, and not logical at all. The alternative is to simply COPY all
files to the new project. This keeps the logical structure, but instead we
end up with a lot of dubblets, making it impossible to track revisions.

Am I the only one looking at this paradox?
I don't think Productstream has a solution for this?

/Michael Christoffersen
Message 3 of 14
cadmageren
in reply to: cadmageren

I wonder why some of my text has turned into bold...

I know we can move data to a library folder or another common folder, but this does not change the situation.
The people working with a specific project want an overview of what files are used for this project. Many of the parts might need to be modified for the new project. and it can be done by different people in the team. It is just not practical.
Message 4 of 14
Anonymous
in reply to: cadmageren

If you put the project as a Property in the version of the files
(part/assy/idw etc.) then you could search all files with the projectnumber
set in that property, and combine that with the file type and save the
search. You wouldn't look any more in the folderstructure itself but in the
saved searches. Not exactly what you want but it might work. Beware that
saved searches are per user per system.

Jerry

BTW the bold might be because i'm using Outlook Express.

schreef in bericht news:5145445@discussion.autodesk.com...
I wonder why some of my text has turned into bold...

I know we can move data to a library folder or another common folder, but
this does not change the situation.
The people working with a specific project want an overview of what files
are used for this project. Many of the parts might need to be modified for
the new project. and it can be done by different people in the team. It is
just not practical.
Message 5 of 14
cadmageren
in reply to: cadmageren

I agree Jerry, this could be an option.

But I think I will turn this into a wishlist: It should be possible to have the same file in more than one folder.
Or why is it not possible to categorise files in searchfolders, like in the normal folders. (Vault 5)?
Message 6 of 14
Anonymous
in reply to: cadmageren

Would sharing a file between folders work?

K Johnson
wrote in message news:5145449@discussion.autodesk.com...
I agree Jerry, this could be an option.

But I think I will turn this into a wishlist: It should be possible to have
the same file in more than one folder.
Or why is it not possible to categorise files in searchfolders, like in the
normal folders. (Vault 5)?
Message 7 of 14
cadmageren
in reply to: cadmageren

That could be a suggestion - is it possible?

Basically this question is not so much technical, but more the principle. How does other companies organise their Vault folders?
Message 8 of 14
Anonymous
in reply to: cadmageren

It's possible to show a file in more that one folder by dragging it to the
new folder with the RMB & selecting "Share". I've never used this feature &
asked a while ago that shared files be marked somehow by Vault for quick
identification but it never happened. The best way I can see for us is to
create a Shared Assemblies folder & move parts & assemblies there when they
become referenced by more than one parent. My boss took that structure away
though & now we have no way of knowing where parts or assemblies are
referenced. Doing a "Where Used" in Vault isn't feasible for each and every
part & subassembly.

wrote in message news:5145557@discussion.autodesk.com...
That could be a suggestion - is it possible?

Basically this question is not so much technical, but more the principle.
How does other companies organise their Vault folders?
Message 9 of 14
Anonymous
in reply to: cadmageren

Greetings,

From the initial post, I see that there is structure based on file types.
Whether inside or outside of Vault, this is not necessary. There is no
compelling reason to separate file types into folders. When possible, have
the top level files (Complete assembly or main subs) along with the drawing
.idw of them at the top of the project folder. Then component folders
underneath with files that are specific to that job. I see there is a
parallel folder for pipes. If you are using AIP, these will by default go
into a subfolder of the iam, not adjacent or above the iam. Keep drawings
next to their model files. You can always sort by file type when needed.

I noticed that design reuse is key to your workflow, along with an overview
of the files used in a project. This can be achieved with the Uses tab or
having the Project iProperty field filled out (excellent suggestion). With
Vault 5 you can edit and update this iProperty for the new job/project. This
can be exported for hard copy if needed.

You can categorize files in a saved search folder by right clicking on the
file type header and selecting Group By this Field. Is this the
functionality you were looking for?

One last thought. Shared files should be avoided. This feature is still in
the product due to legacy, but it is rarely recommended. There are several
caveats with this feature. One significant one is the fact that it does not
map to windows folder behavior. In Windows Explorer, you can have the same
'named' file in two folders, but they are truly different files. With Vault
Shared files, that files is exactly the same as the other file in a
different folder. If you modify one, you modify both. There is no indication
of the file being shared. Aside from locking the file (Productstream) there
is no way to prevent inadvertent modification of the shared file. A better
alternative would be to create a Vault folder called 'Common Parts',
non-library, and create a shortcut. This will be available in the Open and
Place From Vault dialog boxes.

Hope this helps to shed some light on your Vault folder setup. Please post
any questions.


--
Brian Schanen
Product Designer - Data Management
Manufacturing Solutions Division
Autodesk, Inc.

"Dave Hoder" wrote in
message news:5145772@discussion.autodesk.com...
It's possible to show a file in more that one folder by dragging it to the
new folder with the RMB & selecting "Share". I've never used this feature &
asked a while ago that shared files be marked somehow by Vault for quick
identification but it never happened. The best way I can see for us is to
create a Shared Assemblies folder & move parts & assemblies there when they
become referenced by more than one parent. My boss took that structure away
though & now we have no way of knowing where parts or assemblies are
referenced. Doing a "Where Used" in Vault isn't feasible for each and every
part & subassembly.

wrote in message news:5145557@discussion.autodesk.com...
That could be a suggestion - is it possible?

Basically this question is not so much technical, but more the principle.
How does other companies organise their Vault folders?
Message 10 of 14
cadmageren
in reply to: cadmageren

Thanks Brian.

I have got some pretty good inspiration on how to continue.

REUSE is a very important factor, but also very complicated!
Sure we have the Copy Design feature, but it is quite difficult, in the early stage of a new design, to actually know which parts can be reused, and which parts must be copied. This is something we only can find out during the design process. Therefore in most cases, the designer will copy most of the files to a new project. And this will lead to a lot of duplicate files.
Of course common components like std. engines, pistons, pumps, etc can go to a common library. But other objects, like a specific "120 mm long profile, with a hole in one end". Let us say in the new design, it must be 125 mm long. This should be a project specific component, but i do not know it until just before I release it for production.

/Michael Christoffersen
Message 11 of 14
cadmageren
in reply to: cadmageren

Is there a practical limit on how many files to keep in the same folder?

1000+ 10000+ 100000+ 1000 000+

???
Message 12 of 14
Anonymous
in reply to: cadmageren

I don't think so, the Vault will distribute the files within the filestore
anyway to keep Windows from choking. Where you put the files in the Vault is
just a SQL thing so I don't think there's a limit.

Jerry

schreef in bericht news:5157721@discussion.autodesk.com...
Is there a practical limit on how many files to keep in the same folder?

1000+ 10000+ 100000+ 1000 000+

???
Message 13 of 14
Anonymous
in reply to: cadmageren

Jerry is right.

BUT if there are too many files in a Vault folder when you access the
folder through Vault Explorer, it has to get properties of all the files
from server and that will have an impact on Vault Explorer's response time.

Something to consider.

Thanks,
--

Ajay Choudhary



"JerryAcidNL" wrote in message
news:5157725@discussion.autodesk.com...
I don't think so, the Vault will distribute the files within the filestore
anyway to keep Windows from choking. Where you put the files in the Vault is
just a SQL thing so I don't think there's a limit.

Jerry

schreef in bericht news:5157721@discussion.autodesk.com...
Is there a practical limit on how many files to keep in the same folder?

1000+ 10000+ 100000+ 1000 000+

???
Message 14 of 14
hungsianglim
in reply to: cadmageren

Greettings everyone!

 

I was doing some research how to best structure Vault and came across this.

 

My situation is slightly different, I have:

 

  1. CAD - ipt, iam, idw, etc.
  2. Non-CAD - hand sketches, calculations, brochures, manuals, scan data, photos, etc.

This is valid for EVERY SINGLE PART.

 

There are many different parts, categorized mainly by make/model.

 

However, project work can come in a mixed variety - a combination of more than one make/model and part count could range from 5-100 per project.

 

Am thinking of doing the following:

 

  1. "Permanently" store CAD files in fixed location, by make/model
  2. Create one folder for one project, in which contains all parts that make up that project:
  • Store non-CAD files inside the folders
  • Store CAD files in its dedicated "fixed" location

Line of thinking:

 

  1. CAD files are stored to be accessed without having to use search, in the name of speed (myth?).  Could be a subconscious dependency on Windows Explorer behaviour
  2. Project folders are needed more for tracking progress.  However, an individual's turnaround time on all the parts is also desirable to be known as to provide a historical data on his/her performance level

There is an estimated part count of 30,000-50,000, and the number of make/model could also in the thousands.

 

Could you see the flaw in the thinking?

 

Any feedback is much appreciated.

 

Cheers

 

H.S.

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