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Shrinkage compensation

13 REPLIES 13
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Message 1 of 14
prabu27
2974 Views, 13 Replies

Shrinkage compensation

hello ,

            Now i have newly installed the Autodesk simulation  moldflow insight 2014 software . here in warpage result i found new option named shrinkage compensation

under this 4 option is there

1,none

2,Automatic

3,isotropic

4,anisotropic

 

i want warpage result including shrinkage value

then which option i need to select?

 

please anyone answer me...

thank you for your answer .

 

Prabu.k

 

 

13 REPLIES 13
Message 2 of 14
nordhb
in reply to: prabu27

Hi,
warpage result, deflection, is by default warpage and shrinkage.

The default Shrinkage Compensation: None, is the default warpage result as before, warp and shrinkage.

Regarding deflection plots, Properties, tab Deflection, and Shrinkage Compensation:
If you have run a Warp analysis in Autodesk Simulation Moldflow, and would like to view the results without the impact of shrinkage included
you can use Shrinkage Compensation

See: http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/ps/dl/item?siteID=123112&id=20058309&linkID=13030537 

Hope this clarifies.

Regards,
Berndt



Berndt Nordh
Message 3 of 14
prabu27
in reply to: prabu27

Thank you Berndt Nordh

 

Then i have to select "None" for   getting shrinkage with warpage result?

 

Prabu.k

Message 4 of 14
nordhb
in reply to: prabu27

Hi,

 

right, as I wrote:

"The default Shrinkage Compensation: None, is the default warpage result as before, warp and shrinkage."
Shrinkage Compensation: "None" is warpage and shrinkage, and "None" is default for the deflection plots.

So when you select the Deflection plot after completed warp simulation, without entering properites, the defaul result you see is as in previous releases of Insight,

deflection with warp and shrinkage.

Regards,

Berndt

 



Berndt Nordh
Message 5 of 14
mayur_dhumal
in reply to: nordhb

Hello Berndt,

 

The following link does not navigate to desired URL, can you please see?

 

Regards,

Mayur

Tags (1)
Message 6 of 14
nordhb
in reply to: mayur_dhumal

Hello Mayur,

you can find the information here:

How to use warp plot options for Shrinkage Compensation in Simulation Moldflow Insight

 

If you look for information about Autodesk Simulation Moldflow, you can also start here.

You can then search for additional information in the search field, and step by step refine the search.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regards,

Berndt

 



Berndt Nordh
Message 7 of 14
JayMuller
in reply to: prabu27

If it doen't show any values or some are missing in the automatic shrinkage compensation - then you corrupted your mesh by inserting a node by coordinate in DualDomain before 3D Warp.

Message 8 of 14
nordhb
in reply to: JayMuller

Hi JayMuller,

I am a bit puzzled by the comment.

 

If shrinkage compensation shows 0 it means no shrinkage compensation is needed.

Most likely there is an expansion here, that causes shrinkage to be positive.

If positive, no compensation needed and value set to 0.


If you review deflection plot, maybe a scale factor, for each axis and so on, maybe you can see if your part is more likely
to have an expansion than a shrinkage.

 

If there is an expansion, try to modify process settings.

For example: Is the packing pressure level and time reasonable, or too low/short creating volumetric shrinkage differences, creating too large warp,

that will be an expansion in size in the different axis?

 

Regards,

Berndt



Berndt Nordh
Message 9 of 14
JayMuller
in reply to: nordhb

Dear Berndt,

 

you're right, my comment was a bit out of context - this issue has an own post. "Automatic shrinkage compensation corrupted" [Just read and try on your own)

 

Maybe with different materials you can get 0 or even expansion, but never got that with mine (that's 7 years now)  - this example was PMMA 8N and a very flat plate-like model.

I was told that MF calculates the values of the automatic shrinkage compensation by measuing between 3 nodes over the surface - don't know if that is right.

 

I can create a mesh with reproduceable 0 0 0 values in automatic shrinkage compensation and I can create a mesh with values at the same injection location and parameters - must be a huge bug, but noone cares.

Still waiting for a support reply but I already know I won't get an answer.

Like those bugs who moved all over from Version 2010 to 2014. e.g. "enter a value between 0 and 300" after you entered 120.

 

Regards,

 

JAY

Message 10 of 14
nordhb
in reply to: JayMuller

Hi Jay,

it might be an misunderstanding here.

Of course there will be a linear mold shrinkage.

Shrinkage compensation is looking for max/min in the different axis, and not over the part surface as such.

 

What I mean with expansion here, is if you look in a single axis of part, is the measure actually larger than original part?

Then it is expanding in sense of the shrinkage compensation, and positive, hence 0.

 

Is the flat part you test on confidential, or can I have a look?

 

Regards,

Berndt

 

P.S. The bug you mention, please provide some details of where it occur and so I can have a look. Thanks. 

 



Berndt Nordh
Message 11 of 14
JayMuller
in reply to: nordhb

Hi Berndt,

 

Many thanks for your explanation for the calculation - you should tell your support companies too.

 

I am sorry but the part is still confidential - but it is not expanding and would be an even bigger bug if it would expand with mesh 1 and not with mesh 2.

Then it would be Meshflow not Moldflow anymore. [ And because of that my boss plans to change the sim software into something medieval ]

 

How to corrupt automatic shrinkage compensation:

 

You have a flat part with quite perfect dual domain mesh and an injection coordinate. (single injection)

Try-Out 1: use the node next to your coordinate for injection (maybe max. 2mm away) - mesh 3D and run - and you will get values for asc (auto....) e.g. 0.2 0.35 0.12

Try-Out 2: merge the node next to your coordinate onto the coordinate node (as found in every tutorial) - mesh 3D and run - and now you won't get "real" values..sometimes 0 0 0 or 0 0 0.002

The more nodes by coordinate you enter and merge to, the values go more and more to 0 0 0.

 

Maybe this is also effecting the filling calc, just trying to figure that out...if I know more I tell you.

 

The other bugs: Easy but I can't tell you all but one as example:  Go to Pressure Plot - Properties - Animation (animate result over time) - number of frames (in my case showing 6) and enter 10

Then one popup tells me "enter a value between 1 and 6 " pressing ok, next popup tells me "enter a value between 1 and 300"

 

You can find that in the advanced options and DOE cells too.

 

Regards,

 

JAY

 

 

 

 

 

Message 12 of 14
nordhb
in reply to: JayMuller

Hi Jay.

I tested on a plate of 100x40x2 mm, edge length 3mm.

Did according to instructions, to create a node by coordinate 1,1,0 from original in Dual Domain mesh.

Meshed and simulated in 3D, and both Warp deflection shows shrinkage compensation.

See mesh picture:

Plate_100x40x2_mesh.PNG

 

I think the word expansion might mislead a bit here.

Not expanding the mesh as such. It is what deflection plot looks like.

Trying to explain this from a simple shape:

If a U-shaped becoming more Flat _ -shape, it has expanded outwards in that axis, positive as min/max coordinate is larger than original coordinate,
hence no shrinkage compensation, and value would be 0.

Is that explaining it a bit better?

 

Right, see what you say "enter a value between 1 and 300". Will look in to that.

 

Suggest we continue the discussion in thread:

http://forums.autodesk.com/t5/Simulation-Moldflow-Insight/Automatic-shrinkage-compensation-corrupted...

Awaiting your test models in that thread.

 

Thanks.

 

Regards,

Berndt



Berndt Nordh
Message 13 of 14
biricio
in reply to: nordhb

Hi, I have this part that has a Moldflow deflection different from the real model (already moulded).
The material is ABS (Chi Mei - Polylac PA-765).
If I make a 'Shrinkage Compensation' with Isotropic about 0.5 % the situation is OK (Moldflow and mouded part are the same)
Why?

 

What is the best approach?
Usually, before moulded the part, in moldflow NEVER active the shrinkage compensation.

If I had done the analysis before moulding the part, the deflection would be different ... and my boss would have fired 🙂

 

thanks

 

 

Message 14 of 14
JayMuller
in reply to: biricio

 

Dear Biricio,

 

just had a look at your attachments - your pdf is very interesting.

 

 

Did I get it right: You have a frame like part with 2 nearly opposite injection (Top and Bottom) locations, which bends the left and right sections both upwards and shows +4 and -4. (???)

 

How lies your anchor plane or better X-axis?

What shrinkage value was added for the tool?

 

Thanks!

 

Regards,

Jay

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