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tim102289
Posts: 64
Registered: ‎04-15-2010
Message 1 of 17 (1,392 Views)
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Struggling with Connecting Multiple Vertical Ducts into One and Vice Versa

1392 Views, 16 Replies
03-20-2013 01:17 PM

I have a project I am working on where there are multiple floors, and we have a chase inside of which we are running the duct down from the unit on the roof.  Each floor, a little bit of duct peels off using an elbow.  The rest of the duct continues down to the next floor.  However, because the section that peeled off is a corner of the vertical duct, I have to take 2 ducts down to the next floor.  My problem, is that I would like these three ducts to combine into one big duct to go up to the floors above.  I know this is probably confusing to udnerstand the way I have worded it, so I've included a color-coded screenshot to hopefully explain better.

- Tim Smith
Motz Engineering

Revit MEP/AutoCAD/Sketchup
UC Architectural Engineering c/o 2016

"There is nothing more expensive than hiring cheap engineers." - Bob Sheeran, Xavier University 01/05/2005
Valued Contributor
Sandleaz
Posts: 88
Registered: ‎01-04-2012
Message 2 of 17 (1,347 Views)

Re: Struggling with Connecting Multiple Vertical Ducts into One and Vice Versa

03-21-2013 08:18 AM in reply to: tim102289

You can create custom duct fitting(s) with multiple duct connectors whereever individual ducts split from big duct and a connector for the big duct.

 

Big Purple R --> New --> Family

Select duct fitting category and make part type: multi-port in the family categories and parameters menu.

...

  

Make as many as you need.  If you know these custom fittings are "similar" to each other in shape and want to get fancy about it, you can create (1) family with a bunch of instance parameters that you can modify values in your project.

Member
kyuen
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎04-02-2013
Message 3 of 17 (1,249 Views)

Re: Struggling with Connecting Multiple Vertical Ducts into One and Vice Versa

04-02-2013 03:35 PM in reply to: Sandleaz

can you share the fitting family?

Member
kyuen
Posts: 3
Registered: ‎04-02-2013
Message 4 of 17 (1,248 Views)

Re: Struggling with Connecting Multiple Vertical Ducts into One and Vice Versa

04-02-2013 03:37 PM in reply to: kyuen

I am looking at this.

 

Thank you.

Valued Contributor
tim102289
Posts: 64
Registered: ‎04-15-2010
Message 5 of 17 (1,201 Views)

Re: Struggling with Connecting Multiple Vertical Ducts into One and Vice Versa

04-08-2013 10:04 AM in reply to: tim102289

If anyone is good at making families, could you create a duct fitting that splits a duct into 2 ducts?  I basically would just need a duct fitting that allows you to specify the size of the duct going in on one side, and the size of the two ducts coming out the other side.  The fitting would be the same width and height the entire way, but just split into two pieces on one end.  So for example, if the duct coming in on one side was 30x14, the two ducts coming out of the other side would add up to that, say, a 10x14 and a 20x14, and all ducts would continue straight, parallel with the original duct, no curves, tees, angles, etc.  I made an attempt at this but it didn't work out.  It would also be nice if the fitting matched to the size of the duct you place it on, just like transitional tees currently do.  When you attach a tee fitting, it matches to the duct you select, and then you can change the size of the two ends coming out.

- Tim Smith
Motz Engineering

Revit MEP/AutoCAD/Sketchup
UC Architectural Engineering c/o 2016

"There is nothing more expensive than hiring cheap engineers." - Bob Sheeran, Xavier University 01/05/2005
Valued Contributor
Sandleaz
Posts: 88
Registered: ‎01-04-2012
Message 6 of 17 (1,188 Views)

Re: Struggling with Connecting Multiple Vertical Ducts into One and Vice Versa

04-08-2013 11:43 AM in reply to: tim102289

 I made an attempt at this but it didn't work out.

 

You can post a picture of it and people can give suggestions on what to do to it.  Next time when you have to create another duct fitting, you have learned from your success (and initial failure) of this one.  

 

 

Valued Contributor
tim102289
Posts: 64
Registered: ‎04-15-2010
Message 7 of 17 (1,180 Views)

Re: Struggling with Connecting Multiple Vertical Ducts into One and Vice Versa

04-09-2013 08:10 AM in reply to: tim102289

I've attached the rfa file for anyone who would like to take a look and offer insight.  I think it might be better to take an existing fitting, such as the "Rectangular Wye - Curved - Transition" and adjust it to what I'm trying to create, or use that as a guide.

 

I essentially created 3 reference planes, Left Trunk, Right Trunk, and Branch Split.  Then I made some parameters, trunk height and width, branch 1 width, and branch 2 width.  Then I tried to create dimensions accordingly, so that the sweeps would adjust.  The trunk width goes from the left trunk reference plane to the right trunk reference plane, and I made another dimension making both sides equidistant from the center.  Then I made a dimension for branch width 1 goign from the left trunk reference plane to the branch split, and I tried to do the same with branch 2 width from the right trunk reference plane to the branch split, but it would not allow that, saying it would "overconstrain the sketch".  Things seem to adjust somewhat correctly, but I need help getting all the dimensions to work properly, and setting it up so that when you load it into a project and try to place it on a duct, the trunk size will match automatically, and the two branches will start off as totalling the size of the trunk.  If we can accomplish this, my next goal is to make other types of this one which would allow for 3+ branches.  I appreciate any and all feedback/suggestions.

 

floorplan.png

3d.png

EDIT: I was also curious if there was a way to delete reference planes already in the template I began with.  As you can see from the floor plan view, there are a ton of extra reference planes that I don't see the purpose of.

- Tim Smith
Motz Engineering

Revit MEP/AutoCAD/Sketchup
UC Architectural Engineering c/o 2016

"There is nothing more expensive than hiring cheap engineers." - Bob Sheeran, Xavier University 01/05/2005
Valued Contributor
Sandleaz
Posts: 88
Registered: ‎01-04-2012
Message 8 of 17 (1,122 Views)

Re: Struggling with Connecting Multiple Vertical Ducts into One and Vice Versa

04-10-2013 10:22 PM in reply to: tim102289

I think it might be better to take an existing fitting, such as the "Rectangular Wye - Curved - Transition" and adjust it to what I'm trying to create, or use that as a guide.

 

You have something much more complex than a wye.  When it comes to more complex duct fittings, I usually start from scratch and categorize: duct fitting | type: multi-port so REVIT doesn't do anything funky with it.

 

As you can see from the floor plan view, there are a ton of extra reference planes that I don't see the purpose of. 

 

Yeah.  You got a lot of planes there.  Not that anything is wrong with that, except they should be used in some way in constraining and modeling your fitting (or at least as a marker of some sorts).

 

setting it up so that when you load it into a project and try to place it on a duct, the trunk size will match automatically, and the two branches will start off as totalling the size of the trunk.

 

I recommend you abandon this goal (as good as it may be).  Create a standalone fitting where you manually connect the main duct into.  

 

Some suggestions:

 

  • You have vertical ducts --- you should create connectors at top + bottom.  

 

  • Where the 2 ducts peel of at the 6th floor --- looks like a common large elbow then blue + purple ducts split (or 2 separate small elbows for blue and purple ducts)?

 

  • A sketch of a section would be nice.

 

Here's my guess at what you're trying to achieve:

 

Custom Fitting - 3D View.jpg

 

Custom Fitting - Plan View in Editor.jpg

 

Custom Fitting - 3D View in Editor.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

Valued Contributor
tim102289
Posts: 64
Registered: ‎04-15-2010
Message 9 of 17 (1,109 Views)

Re: Struggling with Connecting Multiple Vertical Ducts into One and Vice Versa

04-11-2013 06:15 AM in reply to: Sandleaz

 

You have something much more complex than a wye.  When it comes to more complex duct fittings, I usually start from scratch and categorize: duct fitting | type: multi-port so REVIT doesn't do anything funky with it.

 

I honestly don't think that I do have something much more complex than a wye, in fact possibly simpler than a wye.  All I essentially want to do is have a connector, where one duct goes into the connector, and two come out, just like a wye, only no turns.  You are proposing one fitting to take care of the entire area, whereas I just need this one fitting turning one duct into two, and the rest of the sections can be modelled using existing connectors such as elbows and straight ducts.

 

setting it up so that when you load it into a project and try to place it on a duct, the trunk size will match automatically, and the two branches will start off as totalling the size of the trunk.

 

I recommend you abandon this goal (as good as it may be).  Create a standalone fitting where you manually connect the main duct into.

I don't think this goal is really that lofty, unless the fittings packaged with Revit are extremely difficult to construct.  Tees and wyes that are already existing match to the duct you connect them to, and then you can change the width size of the 2 branches to fit your needs, which is all I would like this new custom fitting to do.

 

You have vertical ducts --- you should create connectors at top + bottom

 

I know I did not mention this in my previous post, but this fitting would be needed in multiple places, for both vertical ducts and horizontal ducts, which shouldn't matter, you can use the same fitting in both places.  I'd prefer to create the fitting for a horizontal duct, and then just rotate it as necessary when placing it on a vertical duct.

 

 

I've included a very crude sketch, similar to the picture you posted, showing how you could use the fitting I am proposing in three different places, and then all of the rest could be modelled with elbows and straight duct.  I tried to use similar colors to your model, and the grey planes would be the locations of my fitting.  Again, please excuse how crude it is, I sketched it up in Paint, but I think it gets the idea across.

 

crude_sketch.png

 

The red duct splits into red and yellow, the grey duct splits into blue and orange, and then the blue duct splits into blue and purple.

- Tim Smith
Motz Engineering

Revit MEP/AutoCAD/Sketchup
UC Architectural Engineering c/o 2016

"There is nothing more expensive than hiring cheap engineers." - Bob Sheeran, Xavier University 01/05/2005
Valued Contributor
Sandleaz
Posts: 88
Registered: ‎01-04-2012
Message 10 of 17 (1,076 Views)

Re: Struggling with Connecting Multiple Vertical Ducts into One and Vice Versa

04-11-2013 11:24 PM in reply to: tim102289

Nice sketch in paint.  That's much easier to understand than your original sketch (to which I matched the colors) where it looked like you were going to split all ducts with 1 fitting.  You're splitting the ducts twice (1. red into red + yellow, 2. grey into blue + orange) before the final split (blue into blue + purple).  Here are (2) more attempts:

 

Custom Fittings - revision 2.jpg

 

 

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